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I'm German, and have installed a small (1.8kWp, 800W inverter) system myself. It's really pretty cool. It was really cheap (our system cost 750€ including insta

I'm German, and have installed a small (1.8kWp, 800W inverter) system myself. It's really pretty cool. It was really cheap (our system cost 750€ including installation material for the roof) and saves a lot of money (130€ since September). Ours will have recovered the upfront investment cost within the next 2 years. Our meter is currently turning backwards when we feed in, but will be replaced by a meter that doesn't (then, energy we feed back into the grid will be given away to the grid operator for free).

Gasp0de 2y ago
I forgot the coolest thing about this: We are currently transitioning from a demand-driven grid to a supply-driven grid. Previously, when more power was consumed, power plants upped their production by burning more coal, oil or gas. Now, the consumption needs to be upped when power is available via solar or wind, and reduced when it isn't. Balcony power plants do a very good job of educating and motivating people to do this.
hagbard_c 2y ago
Don't give energy away to the operator, they don't (want to) give you energy for free either. Get something which can soak up excess energy - a battery, an electric water heater, whatever - and run that on whatever excess energy you have. Assuming you don't invest too much money in such a project you'll end up saving a bit more money and you'll avoid being fined for pushing energy into an already overloaded network once everyone and his dog have installed solar which pushes up the voltage from nominal 230VAC to somewhere around 245-250VAC (250VAC is the usual cutoff for inverters where I live (Sweden)). I installed 14.5 kW of PV panels on the barn roof a few years ago and hooked them up to a 10 kW hybrid inverter. Hybrid inverters can divert energy (from the PV panels or from the net) to a battery which can be used at a later stage to feed consumers in the local installation or to backfeed to the net. Since we currently have a contract which allows us to sell energy at market rates we do not have a battery yet but I don't know yet what the next contract (in 2 years) will look like. Assuming that we can no longer sell at market rates I'll install around 60-80 kWh in battery capacity to soak up excess production and dump the rest in the water heater etc. If we ever get a hybrid or electric car/tractor/whatever I'll add battery capacity so as to be able to charge those with excess energy. By that time we'll be close to ready to go off-grid which is fine by me, electricity prices here in Sweden have skyrocketed due to the demand from (mostly) Germany for excess capacity since you shut down your nuclear power plants. The more transmission capacity is built in the Baltic, the higher our prices get.
- Gasp0de 2y ago
  A battery isn't profitable for me atm, and I have no problem giving the electricity away. Do you have a source that shows that shutting down nuclear power plants has in any way influenced German power import? I'd doubt that. Power is imported when it is cheaper to import it than produce it ourselves (there has not been a situation yet where Germany couldn't meet it's own demand).
  - hagbard_c 2y ago
    You're answering your own question here: Power is imported when it is cheaper to import it than produce it ourselves After shutting down the remaining 6, then 3 nuclear power plants it became cheaper to import power from Sweden - which used to be blessed with relatively low electricity prices due to to the large hydro and (diminishing) nuclear generation capacity - than to generate it in Germany. While this might have been positive for Germany and for electricity producers in Sweden it is a definite negative for electricity users in Sweden who have seen their prices skyrocket. As to the direct effects of the nuclear shutdown there's quite a bit written, e.g. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/qa-germanys-nuclear-exit-one-year-after https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/qa-germanys-nucle... 4) What changed in electricity imports and why? For the first time in many years, Germany became a net electricity importer in 2023. The trade balance for electricity switched from 21 TWh of exports to 22 TWh of imports in the same period. Imports have risen despite sufficient plant capacity in Germany to cover domestic demand entirely. In March 2024, the country announced the shutdown of seven more coal-fired power plant units after the winter, as they are no longer needed to guarantee supply security. This leaves aside other costs involved with the nuclear phase-out [1] and the knock-on effects of the increased energy prices as well as lower guaranteed availability which is part of the cause of German deindustrialisation. If you doubt whether this actually happening I invite you to peruse a search engine of your preference on the subject which is more effective than me linking to a number of articles from many different sources. [1] https://olivierdeschenes.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/5/0/135068654/private-and-external-costs-of-germanys-nuclear-phase-out.pdf https://olivierdeschenes.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/5/0/13506865...
    - 2y ago
matheusmoreira 2y ago
> energy we feed back into the grid will be given away to the grid operator for free Why would you do that? I'd rather sink all the surplus electricity into a cryptocurrency miner than just give it away to the grid.
- Gasp0de 2y ago
  Cryptominers are way more expensive than the solar system itself, it is questionable if they will recoup their cost even with free electricity, and afaik, it would not be easy to select an arbitrary power consumption. Power can easily vary between 100W and 800W by the second.
- thefz 2y ago
  You know, not everyone tries to profit from everything all the time.
  - dns_snek 2y ago
    If my utility company wanted to install solar on my roof with their own funds and give me some energy for free in exchange, I'd support that. But installing solar on your own roof with your own funds, and then giving the energy away for free to a for-profit corporation? How does that make any financial sense?
    - thefz 2y ago
      Who cares, you are not going to use that power anyway.
    - Gasp0de 2y ago
      It doesn't make less sense than burning it just so the power company can't have it. By giving it away, I at least reduce CO2 emmissions further.
  - matheusmoreira 2y ago
    Maybe not everyone but power grid operators absolutely do.

Gasp0de 2y ago

I forgot the coolest thing about this: We are currently transitioning from a demand-driven grid to a supply-driven grid. Previously, when more power was consumed, power plants upped their production by burning more coal, oil or gas. Now, the consumption needs to be upped when power is available via solar or wind, and reduced when it isn't. Balcony power plants do a very good job of educating and motivating people to do this.

hagbard_c 2y ago

Don't give energy away to the operator, they don't (want to) give you energy for free either. Get something which can soak up excess energy - a battery, an electric water heater, whatever - and run that on whatever excess energy you have. Assuming you don't invest too much money in such a project you'll end up saving a bit more money and you'll avoid being fined for pushing energy into an already overloaded network once everyone and his dog have installed solar which pushes up the voltage from nominal 230VAC to somewhere around 245-250VAC (250VAC is the usual cutoff for inverters where I live (Sweden)). I installed 14.5 kW of PV panels on the barn roof a few years ago and hooked them up to a 10 kW hybrid inverter. Hybrid inverters can divert energy (from the PV panels or from the net) to a battery which can be used at a later stage to feed consumers in the local installation or to backfeed to the net. Since we currently have a contract which allows us to sell energy at market rates we do not have a battery yet but I don't know yet what the next contract (in 2 years) will look like. Assuming that we can no longer sell at market rates I'll install around 60-80 kWh in battery capacity to soak up excess production and dump the rest in the water heater etc. If we ever get a hybrid or electric car/tractor/whatever I'll add battery capacity so as to be able to charge those with excess energy. By that time we'll be close to ready to go off-grid which is fine by me, electricity prices here in Sweden have skyrocketed due to the demand from (mostly) Germany for excess capacity since you shut down your nuclear power plants. The more transmission capacity is built in the Baltic, the higher our prices get.

Gasp0de 2y ago
A battery isn't profitable for me atm, and I have no problem giving the electricity away. Do you have a source that shows that shutting down nuclear power plants has in any way influenced German power import? I'd doubt that. Power is imported when it is cheaper to import it than produce it ourselves (there has not been a situation yet where Germany couldn't meet it's own demand).
- hagbard_c 2y ago
  You're answering your own question here: Power is imported when it is cheaper to import it than produce it ourselves After shutting down the remaining 6, then 3 nuclear power plants it became cheaper to import power from Sweden - which used to be blessed with relatively low electricity prices due to to the large hydro and (diminishing) nuclear generation capacity - than to generate it in Germany. While this might have been positive for Germany and for electricity producers in Sweden it is a definite negative for electricity users in Sweden who have seen their prices skyrocket. As to the direct effects of the nuclear shutdown there's quite a bit written, e.g. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/qa-germanys-nuclear-exit-one-year-after https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/qa-germanys-nucle... 4) What changed in electricity imports and why? For the first time in many years, Germany became a net electricity importer in 2023. The trade balance for electricity switched from 21 TWh of exports to 22 TWh of imports in the same period. Imports have risen despite sufficient plant capacity in Germany to cover domestic demand entirely. In March 2024, the country announced the shutdown of seven more coal-fired power plant units after the winter, as they are no longer needed to guarantee supply security. This leaves aside other costs involved with the nuclear phase-out [1] and the knock-on effects of the increased energy prices as well as lower guaranteed availability which is part of the cause of German deindustrialisation. If you doubt whether this actually happening I invite you to peruse a search engine of your preference on the subject which is more effective than me linking to a number of articles from many different sources. [1] https://olivierdeschenes.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/5/0/135068654/private-and-external-costs-of-germanys-nuclear-phase-out.pdf https://olivierdeschenes.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/5/0/13506865...
  - 2y ago

matheusmoreira 2y ago

> energy we feed back into the grid will be given away to the grid operator for free Why would you do that? I'd rather sink all the surplus electricity into a cryptocurrency miner than just give it away to the grid.

Gasp0de 2y ago
Cryptominers are way more expensive than the solar system itself, it is questionable if they will recoup their cost even with free electricity, and afaik, it would not be easy to select an arbitrary power consumption. Power can easily vary between 100W and 800W by the second.
thefz 2y ago
You know, not everyone tries to profit from everything all the time.
- dns_snek 2y ago
  If my utility company wanted to install solar on my roof with their own funds and give me some energy for free in exchange, I'd support that. But installing solar on your own roof with your own funds, and then giving the energy away for free to a for-profit corporation? How does that make any financial sense?
  - thefz 2y ago
    Who cares, you are not going to use that power anyway.
  - Gasp0de 2y ago
    It doesn't make less sense than burning it just so the power company can't have it. By giving it away, I at least reduce CO2 emmissions further.
- matheusmoreira 2y ago
  Maybe not everyone but power grid operators absolutely do.