4 ms·

There is no bye to Windows gaming, because the casual PC gamer will still use Windows and won’t bother with SteamOS, and rightfully so, because why bother? If y

by akaike 2y ago

There is no bye to Windows gaming, because the casual PC gamer will still use Windows and won’t bother with SteamOS, and rightfully so, because why bother? If you can’t handle Windows, then certainly you won’t be able to live with Linux as your main system. Windows just works for gaming and all connected devices. SteamOS maybe works well for dedicated handhelds, but I can’t imagine a casual user bothering with Linux and wondering why the newly bought xyz Bluetooth device doesn’t work on it.

raxxor 2y ago
I just had a new headset that I cannot pair in Windows without a third party adapter. Windows has momentum, but it certainly isn't because it is easier or more reliable anymore.
gwbas1c 2y ago
> SteamOS maybe works well for dedicated handhelds If someone just wants to play games, why pay extra for Windows? Especially if all they are going to do is play games on a handheld / console.
- akaike 2y ago
  Maybe it’s due to peripheral driver support? Not every device works without issues on Linux. Also maybe because of specific mods or tools which only work on Windows. Besides that, currently all the “awesome anti-cheat root kits”, are not supported by Linux. There are a few reasons, but I agree with you that if you use only a handheld, SteamOS probably will work fine.
LorenDB 2y ago
Counterpoint: LTT recently tried SteamOS on PC[0] and found that even without an official desktop release from Valve, it just works. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdR-bxvQKN8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdR-bxvQKN8
- nebalee 2y ago
  Neat. The printer bit made me roll my eyes, though. They could not get a printer work with the desktop OS that is Windows, and after also unsuccessfully attempting to get it to work on the OS of a _hand-held_ _gaming_ device, which they just showcased as a PC-based alternative to a living room console, their conclusion is "needs some work"? I, mean what? Would anybody expect to be able to print from a PlayStation or a Switch? What would you even want to print?
  - ryao 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Boy_Printer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Boy_Printer
  - nzach 2y ago
    > Would anybody expect to be able to print from a PlayStation or a Switch? Interestingly enough PS2 had printer support[0], and so did PS3[1]. But it seems it didn't work very well. [0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djHWzLZFm7A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djHWzLZFm7A [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_efGW89MyL4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_efGW89MyL4
adamtaylor_13 2y ago
This whole “Windows just works” mantra gets less and less true with every passing day. The number of times I have to fight tooth and nail to stop updates, uninstall edge, nuke bloatware shit installs from orbit, or hell just get my audio to go out the correct output device is astronomical. Windows is no walk in the park. And Linux is easy to use these days. So… sure maybe this is still sorta true. But we’re long past the days of needing to be a hacker to use a Linux OS and it’s only getting better, while Windows is only getting worse.
- ryao 2y ago
  This reminds me of Microsoft’s backdoor for installing updates even when you decline them: https://web.archive.org/web/20200219180230/http://slated.org/windows_by_stealth_the_updates_you_dont_want https://web.archive.org/web/20200219180230/http://slated.org...
- thefz 2y ago
  ... nah. I usually remove all unwanted software once and only after a fresh install, and a Windows installation lasts years without maintenance nowadays.
  - adamtaylor_13 2y ago
    My brother in Christ, we must be using different versions of Windows. I have to uninstall crap all the time. :’)
- akaike 2y ago
  I agree with you partially, but a casual user just doesn’t care or bother. They don’t uninstall bloatware; in fact, I’m pretty sure most don’t even know what it means. Casual users don’t even bother to switch to dark mode or check if their monitor supports more than 60Hz—things like that. That’s also why Apple doesn’t focus on such details. I’m not against Linux; for developers and servers, it’s awesome. But for casual users, I don’t see the appeal. There’s no reason to bother as long as it works—and it does. Do you genuinely think, that a user who complains that Windows is bad and doesn’t work, will be able to install Linux and be happy? First thing someone like that will do, is probably try to execute an exe file and the complain under some YouTube video about it.
detritus 2y ago
I get the impression that a load of people are preparing to jump ship once Win10's sundowned and they're faced with having to get rid of a perfectly usable computer to install Win11. I know I am, loathe as I am to move over to Linux, but Microsoft's making its own bed and continuing on its quest to alienate long-term users with 'peculiar' interface and OS changes. That, Mac and Mobile ownership and I do have to wonder what MS's long-term strategy to avoid pissing away Windows Desktop users is, because I can't see it.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > I do have to wonder what MS's long-term strategy to avoid pissing away Windows Desktop users is, because I can't see it. Give private users up because you can't extract money from them, but keep milking Office 365, governments and enterprises that Just Can't move away from Windows due to decades of legacy garbage.
- cesarb 2y ago
  > I get the impression that a load of people are preparing to jump ship once Win10's sundowned and they're faced with having to get rid of a perfectly usable computer to install Win11. In my opinion, what will most likely happen is the same thing that happened when Windows XP was retired: nothing at all, people just kept running the same Windows XP they had already installed. That is, people will just keep Windows 10, not caring that Microsoft does not care about it anymore. And, for them, it will work even better, since without constant updates, Windows 10 will become more stable (as in: not changing all the time, not having random automated reboots due to updates, etc). (We might be concerned that, without software updates, the security bogeyman will catch and eat us, but most normal people don't worry about that.)
pbalcer 2y ago
SteamOS is a much more streamlined console-like experience for gaming. Even things as simple as system updates is far less annoying on Linux/SteamOS than it is on Windows. This is especially important in, for example, a set-top box media PC you might want to have for your TV and you don't run every day. And, over time, as SteamOS in its various forms becomes more and more popular, game publishers will be motivated to support it. Many already are, from Steam Deck alone. And, in a few years, it's possible that a "casual PC gamer" will actually prefer the far more plug-and-play SteamOS experience versus the Windows one (which, I, for one, highly dislike, but I understand that's a preferences thing).
ghusto 2y ago
Funny sentiment to me, because I switched my parents and in-laws over to Linux exactly because of what a hassle Windows is to support. > and wondering why the newly bought xyz Bluetooth device doesn’t work on it It's not the early 2000s anymore, things just work now.
- akaike 2y ago
  What exactly is such a big hassle with Windows? Sure, it’s bloated with trash, but again, it’s good and simple enough for everyone to use. Try explaining to a casual user that they can’t execute an exe file or use Photoshop or whatever on Linux without specific workarounds.
  - cholantesh 2y ago
    Neither of those scenarios are typical for 'casual users' of the 2020s: at work, most have Windows laptops issued to them that they can't install things onto anyway, and elsewhere they are liable to do most of their computing on a tablet or a phone. There's almost nothing an exe file could do for a casual user that couldn't be done in a browser or mobile app, and most of them understand what an operating system is and that, on some level, there are cross-compatibility issues between them that they may be able to resolve with a tool. >Photoshop or whatever No one who _needs_ Photoshop is a casual user.
    - akaike 2y ago
      That’s not true—these scenarios absolutely apply to casual users, like students or hobbyists who do things like video editing or photo editing. Students, for example, often need Windows-specific software for schoolwork. Even if we ignore Windows-specific software entirely, there are still other pain points: DRM support, HDR support, certain drivers, and even the variety of package managers and ways to install things. You know what I mean—these things are nothing special for us, but for someone who’s just casually gaming or doing some creative hobbies, being forced to use the terminal to, for example, update Nvidia drivers or find a workaround to get an unsupported game launcher to work, can be a total dealbreaker Even something as basic as swapping out PC hardware as a gamer isn’t as seamless on Linux as it is on Windows. That’s a lot of friction for someone who just wants things to “work”. And you know I’m right because if I would be wrong with all these points, we already would have a year of Linux desktops … as it’s being said every year. You underestimate how most people just value ease of use, familiarity and don’t care about freedom and control over a system. Most don’t want to spend their time tweaking or figuring out why something doesn’t work and that’s totally fine.

by akaike 2y ago

raxxor 2y ago

I just had a new headset that I cannot pair in Windows without a third party adapter. Windows has momentum, but it certainly isn't because it is easier or more reliable anymore.

gwbas1c 2y ago

> SteamOS maybe works well for dedicated handhelds If someone just wants to play games, why pay extra for Windows? Especially if all they are going to do is play games on a handheld / console.

akaike 2y ago
Maybe it’s due to peripheral driver support? Not every device works without issues on Linux. Also maybe because of specific mods or tools which only work on Windows. Besides that, currently all the “awesome anti-cheat root kits”, are not supported by Linux. There are a few reasons, but I agree with you that if you use only a handheld, SteamOS probably will work fine.

LorenDB 2y ago

Counterpoint: LTT recently tried SteamOS on PC[0] and found that even without an official desktop release from Valve, it just works. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdR-bxvQKN8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdR-bxvQKN8

nebalee 2y ago
Neat. The printer bit made me roll my eyes, though. They could not get a printer work with the desktop OS that is Windows, and after also unsuccessfully attempting to get it to work on the OS of a _hand-held_ _gaming_ device, which they just showcased as a PC-based alternative to a living room console, their conclusion is "needs some work"? I, mean what? Would anybody expect to be able to print from a PlayStation or a Switch? What would you even want to print?
- ryao 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Boy_Printer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Boy_Printer
- nzach 2y ago
  > Would anybody expect to be able to print from a PlayStation or a Switch? Interestingly enough PS2 had printer support[0], and so did PS3[1]. But it seems it didn't work very well. [0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djHWzLZFm7A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djHWzLZFm7A [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_efGW89MyL4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_efGW89MyL4

adamtaylor_13 2y ago

This whole “Windows just works” mantra gets less and less true with every passing day. The number of times I have to fight tooth and nail to stop updates, uninstall edge, nuke bloatware shit installs from orbit, or hell just get my audio to go out the correct output device is astronomical. Windows is no walk in the park. And Linux is easy to use these days. So… sure maybe this is still sorta true. But we’re long past the days of needing to be a hacker to use a Linux OS and it’s only getting better, while Windows is only getting worse.

ryao 2y ago
This reminds me of Microsoft’s backdoor for installing updates even when you decline them: https://web.archive.org/web/20200219180230/http://slated.org/windows_by_stealth_the_updates_you_dont_want https://web.archive.org/web/20200219180230/http://slated.org...
thefz 2y ago
... nah. I usually remove all unwanted software once and only after a fresh install, and a Windows installation lasts years without maintenance nowadays.
- adamtaylor_13 2y ago
  My brother in Christ, we must be using different versions of Windows. I have to uninstall crap all the time. :’)
akaike 2y ago
I agree with you partially, but a casual user just doesn’t care or bother. They don’t uninstall bloatware; in fact, I’m pretty sure most don’t even know what it means. Casual users don’t even bother to switch to dark mode or check if their monitor supports more than 60Hz—things like that. That’s also why Apple doesn’t focus on such details. I’m not against Linux; for developers and servers, it’s awesome. But for casual users, I don’t see the appeal. There’s no reason to bother as long as it works—and it does. Do you genuinely think, that a user who complains that Windows is bad and doesn’t work, will be able to install Linux and be happy? First thing someone like that will do, is probably try to execute an exe file and the complain under some YouTube video about it.

detritus 2y ago

I get the impression that a load of people are preparing to jump ship once Win10's sundowned and they're faced with having to get rid of a perfectly usable computer to install Win11. I know I am, loathe as I am to move over to Linux, but Microsoft's making its own bed and continuing on its quest to alienate long-term users with 'peculiar' interface and OS changes. That, Mac and Mobile ownership and I do have to wonder what MS's long-term strategy to avoid pissing away Windows Desktop users is, because I can't see it.

mschuster91 2y ago
> I do have to wonder what MS's long-term strategy to avoid pissing away Windows Desktop users is, because I can't see it. Give private users up because you can't extract money from them, but keep milking Office 365, governments and enterprises that Just Can't move away from Windows due to decades of legacy garbage.
cesarb 2y ago
> I get the impression that a load of people are preparing to jump ship once Win10's sundowned and they're faced with having to get rid of a perfectly usable computer to install Win11. In my opinion, what will most likely happen is the same thing that happened when Windows XP was retired: nothing at all, people just kept running the same Windows XP they had already installed. That is, people will just keep Windows 10, not caring that Microsoft does not care about it anymore. And, for them, it will work even better, since without constant updates, Windows 10 will become more stable (as in: not changing all the time, not having random automated reboots due to updates, etc). (We might be concerned that, without software updates, the security bogeyman will catch and eat us, but most normal people don't worry about that.)

pbalcer 2y ago

SteamOS is a much more streamlined console-like experience for gaming. Even things as simple as system updates is far less annoying on Linux/SteamOS than it is on Windows. This is especially important in, for example, a set-top box media PC you might want to have for your TV and you don't run every day. And, over time, as SteamOS in its various forms becomes more and more popular, game publishers will be motivated to support it. Many already are, from Steam Deck alone. And, in a few years, it's possible that a "casual PC gamer" will actually prefer the far more plug-and-play SteamOS experience versus the Windows one (which, I, for one, highly dislike, but I understand that's a preferences thing).

ghusto 2y ago

Funny sentiment to me, because I switched my parents and in-laws over to Linux exactly because of what a hassle Windows is to support. > and wondering why the newly bought xyz Bluetooth device doesn’t work on it It's not the early 2000s anymore, things just work now.

akaike 2y ago
What exactly is such a big hassle with Windows? Sure, it’s bloated with trash, but again, it’s good and simple enough for everyone to use. Try explaining to a casual user that they can’t execute an exe file or use Photoshop or whatever on Linux without specific workarounds.
- cholantesh 2y ago
  Neither of those scenarios are typical for 'casual users' of the 2020s: at work, most have Windows laptops issued to them that they can't install things onto anyway, and elsewhere they are liable to do most of their computing on a tablet or a phone. There's almost nothing an exe file could do for a casual user that couldn't be done in a browser or mobile app, and most of them understand what an operating system is and that, on some level, there are cross-compatibility issues between them that they may be able to resolve with a tool. >Photoshop or whatever No one who _needs_ Photoshop is a casual user.
  - akaike 2y ago
    That’s not true—these scenarios absolutely apply to casual users, like students or hobbyists who do things like video editing or photo editing. Students, for example, often need Windows-specific software for schoolwork. Even if we ignore Windows-specific software entirely, there are still other pain points: DRM support, HDR support, certain drivers, and even the variety of package managers and ways to install things. You know what I mean—these things are nothing special for us, but for someone who’s just casually gaming or doing some creative hobbies, being forced to use the terminal to, for example, update Nvidia drivers or find a workaround to get an unsupported game launcher to work, can be a total dealbreaker Even something as basic as swapping out PC hardware as a gamer isn’t as seamless on Linux as it is on Windows. That’s a lot of friction for someone who just wants things to “work”. And you know I’m right because if I would be wrong with all these points, we already would have a year of Linux desktops … as it’s being said every year. You underestimate how most people just value ease of use, familiarity and don’t care about freedom and control over a system. Most don’t want to spend their time tweaking or figuring out why something doesn’t work and that’s totally fine.