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I think you are trying hard and writing a lot to miss the parent's point. You're thing about the number of words in the sentence is like what the parent is mist

I think you are trying hard and writing a lot to miss the parent's point. You're thing about the number of words in the sentence is like what the parent is mistakenly calling "tautological;" another way to say it is blatantly obvious and a banal observation. This is not the type of thing we are talking about here. This is entire post is about "facts" and "fact checking" in the case of socio-political issues, the kinds of things for which there are fact checkers. The parent is obviously correct. Just look at the state of actual "fact checking" of this variety in the real world. There is a lot of controversy and a lot of words are used in a very loose way, these are not simple physics problems that you can punch into a TI-86. The issue is clearly about "who are the fact checkers" or put another way "who decides the facts." In a court of the law in the US, the judge is only arbiter of facts, these can not even be appealed.

intended 2y ago
Everything is political, which is one of the statements made above. Facts are political. Because facts actively change how you live your life. The playwright who created the “kill all climate denialists” talks about how it took years for the play to get onto stage. And then how he began to see the truth of climate denialists positions. That climate denialists believed the facts, and realized it meant their whole way of life was over. So they had to do something about it. They responded with denial. In a very real way, they lived their beliefs. The fact of climate change IS political. EVERYTHING is political, there is no fact that I cannot convert into a weapon, through some means or the other. Blaming fact checkers, is simply trying not to blame humans.
- dinkumthinkum 2y ago
  No, whether a coffee cup will break when you drop it or whatever that was is not a political thing. I'm not sure what the rest is about. To deny that there is a lot of subjectivity in the kinds of "facts" we are talking about her is just to deny reality.
  - intended 2y ago
    The way you eat Pizza became a political thing. Whether evolution occurs became a political thing. It may odd, but political reality is a ‘motivated’ reality - there is a goal to be achieved. Anything that can be used to create a political win, will be used to create a political win. I agree that subjectivity exists though.
claytongulick 2y ago
How was I mistaken in my use of tautology? My understanding is that it's supposed to be a reduction of a logical argument into the form A = A, or true = true. When the words are different, but essentially mean the same thing, and used as a flawed proposition. Am I wrong about that? I certainly don't want to bandy the word about incorrectly.
- dinkumthinkum 2y ago
  But I agree with your overall point! :) Ok, so the statement "gravity keeps us on the ground" is not a tautology in the strict sense but you have correctly defined it here. I think it probably seems like a tautology because colloquially we might use it that way. I don't think its worth parsing out too much. This kind of stuff about coffee cups and all that has nothing to do with "fact checking" political statements and anyone else being serious knows that.
  - claytongulick 2y ago
    Thanks! With "gravity keeps us on the ground" I was trying to point out that the word "gravity" to most folks is the same thing as "the thing that keeps us on the ground", it's just a language symbol/shorthand for that concept, so the statement would reduce to A=A, and isn't a meaningful "fact".

intended 2y ago

Everything is political, which is one of the statements made above. Facts are political. Because facts actively change how you live your life. The playwright who created the “kill all climate denialists” talks about how it took years for the play to get onto stage. And then how he began to see the truth of climate denialists positions. That climate denialists believed the facts, and realized it meant their whole way of life was over. So they had to do something about it. They responded with denial. In a very real way, they lived their beliefs. The fact of climate change IS political. EVERYTHING is political, there is no fact that I cannot convert into a weapon, through some means or the other. Blaming fact checkers, is simply trying not to blame humans.

dinkumthinkum 2y ago
No, whether a coffee cup will break when you drop it or whatever that was is not a political thing. I'm not sure what the rest is about. To deny that there is a lot of subjectivity in the kinds of "facts" we are talking about her is just to deny reality.
- intended 2y ago
  The way you eat Pizza became a political thing. Whether evolution occurs became a political thing. It may odd, but political reality is a ‘motivated’ reality - there is a goal to be achieved. Anything that can be used to create a political win, will be used to create a political win. I agree that subjectivity exists though.

claytongulick 2y ago

How was I mistaken in my use of tautology? My understanding is that it's supposed to be a reduction of a logical argument into the form A = A, or true = true. When the words are different, but essentially mean the same thing, and used as a flawed proposition. Am I wrong about that? I certainly don't want to bandy the word about incorrectly.

dinkumthinkum 2y ago
But I agree with your overall point! :) Ok, so the statement "gravity keeps us on the ground" is not a tautology in the strict sense but you have correctly defined it here. I think it probably seems like a tautology because colloquially we might use it that way. I don't think its worth parsing out too much. This kind of stuff about coffee cups and all that has nothing to do with "fact checking" political statements and anyone else being serious knows that.
- claytongulick 2y ago
  Thanks! With "gravity keeps us on the ground" I was trying to point out that the word "gravity" to most folks is the same thing as "the thing that keeps us on the ground", it's just a language symbol/shorthand for that concept, so the statement would reduce to A=A, and isn't a meaningful "fact".