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Ah finally the Western tech ecosystem has caught up with WeChat/Alipay mini programs. https://developers.weixin.qq.com/miniprogram/en/dev/framework/ https://de

Ah finally the Western tech ecosystem has caught up with WeChat/Alipay mini programs. https://developers.weixin.qq.com/miniprogram/en/dev/framework/ https://developers.weixin.qq.com/miniprogram/en/dev/framewor... China had this DSL for building mobile apps for years. Those these apps are initially embedded inside WeChat/Alipay, there are now frameworks that allow it to run outside, like uniapp. https://en.uniapp.dcloud.io/ https://en.uniapp.dcloud.io/

klausa 2y ago
I've had very limited exposure to Alipay mini-programs (took a daytrip to Shenzhen from HK); but anything I had to touch (couples of restaurant menus; buying tickets for metro) was _screaming_ "this is poorly constructed webpage", not native-like experience. Are there some you would recommend to see as an example of it being done right?
- nsonha 2y ago
  > poorly constructed webpage", not native-like experience yes "poorly constructed" is the key here. Poorly constructed "native" apps are not better. Let's not pretend that all apps need native capabilities. The vast majority of them, or the vast majority of their functionality, can boils down to showing lists and images. Pretty wasteful to make apps in native languages just to do that if you ask me.
- paradite 2y ago
  You can buy plane tickets, railway tickets, book hotels on wechat via popular 3rd party booking platforms. I think there are first party integrations in wechat app, go to Me - Pay and Services, you can see a bunch of them.
  - klausa 2y ago
    Sorry, just to clarify — I meant examples of services that "feel" nice to interact with in the app; not examples of what they can be used for.
    - scotty79 2y ago
      It's a bit like asking which power company has pretty technicians.
      - klausa 2y ago
        We're in a thread talking about a technology that purports to make creating "native mobile apps, as easy as creating a website"; and the parent claimed that the Alipay/WeChats mini-app stacks are similar. I don't think asking for examples of this resulting in an experience that's pleasant is unreasonable?
        afavour 2y ago
        I think the point OP is making is that the relative pleasantry of the experience isn't as important for end users as it is for us developers. My anecdotal experience bears that out: I shudder when I see a web-heavy native app, my non-tech friends don't bat an eyelid. People learn UIs, no matter how janky, very quickly if the end goal is important to them.
        scotty79 2y ago
        I think my point was that an application that exists, is up to date and works is a better application than the one that doesn't exist or is stale because it's harder to write and maintain but feels (or would feel if it existed) nice and polished. For practical purposes like buying stuff or accessing information I want practical applications that can be quickly iterated on.
      - gadflyinyoureye 2y ago
        FPL. Tone bodies with good tans. Don't see that with IP&L.
      - 1shooner 2y ago
        Well, do those WeChat services have competition? That's where I've seen the push for better UX: it's a signal to users that your product is overall higher quality. So not so much 'pretty power company technicians' and more 'Is the lobby of the hotel clean?'.
lolpanda 2y ago
Those mini apps are built on the same web stack. I believe the main advantages of creating mini apps are that the platform provides identity (allowing you to know who the users are upon permission approval) and payment APIs.
- aquariusDue 2y ago
  I believe Telegram has something similar too.
- paradite 2y ago
  They use a mixture of web rendering stack and native rendering stack. See my other comment. There are also more architectural diagrams thst illustrate the layers in the links I posted in my original comment.
flohofwoe 2y ago
Aren't those just web apps running inside a webview widget? What's "native" about that? (but tbh, at first glance this Hyperview thing looks like it's just re-inventing web browsers too).
- anonzzzies 2y ago
  When I was still using wechat (and in china); it was a mix; native buttons and payment integrations mixed with webviews for content.
- paradite 2y ago
  I think the key idea is not the renderer layer, but the concept of DSL so that it can run on multiple platforms natively. To go back to your question. WeChat actually has two sets of renderers for mini programs, one based on webview, and one based on native iOS / Android components. But you are right that most mini programs are using mostly webview to render, with only a few things being natively rendered.
aa-jv 2y ago
The "Western" (whatever that is) tech ecosystem has long had this technology out there .. its the "Western" marketing ecosystem that has been squashing it - for example, Apple quashing any and all use of JITs and VMs in order to keep their native platform relevant ..
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

klausa 2y ago

I've had very limited exposure to Alipay mini-programs (took a daytrip to Shenzhen from HK); but anything I had to touch (couples of restaurant menus; buying tickets for metro) was _screaming_ "this is poorly constructed webpage", not native-like experience. Are there some you would recommend to see as an example of it being done right?

nsonha 2y ago
> poorly constructed webpage", not native-like experience yes "poorly constructed" is the key here. Poorly constructed "native" apps are not better. Let's not pretend that all apps need native capabilities. The vast majority of them, or the vast majority of their functionality, can boils down to showing lists and images. Pretty wasteful to make apps in native languages just to do that if you ask me.
paradite 2y ago
You can buy plane tickets, railway tickets, book hotels on wechat via popular 3rd party booking platforms. I think there are first party integrations in wechat app, go to Me - Pay and Services, you can see a bunch of them.
- klausa 2y ago
  Sorry, just to clarify — I meant examples of services that "feel" nice to interact with in the app; not examples of what they can be used for.
  - scotty79 2y ago
    It's a bit like asking which power company has pretty technicians.
    - klausa 2y ago
      We're in a thread talking about a technology that purports to make creating "native mobile apps, as easy as creating a website"; and the parent claimed that the Alipay/WeChats mini-app stacks are similar. I don't think asking for examples of this resulting in an experience that's pleasant is unreasonable?
      - afavour 2y ago
        I think the point OP is making is that the relative pleasantry of the experience isn't as important for end users as it is for us developers. My anecdotal experience bears that out: I shudder when I see a web-heavy native app, my non-tech friends don't bat an eyelid. People learn UIs, no matter how janky, very quickly if the end goal is important to them.
        scotty79 2y ago
        I think my point was that an application that exists, is up to date and works is a better application than the one that doesn't exist or is stale because it's harder to write and maintain but feels (or would feel if it existed) nice and polished. For practical purposes like buying stuff or accessing information I want practical applications that can be quickly iterated on.
    - gadflyinyoureye 2y ago
      FPL. Tone bodies with good tans. Don't see that with IP&L.
    - 1shooner 2y ago
      Well, do those WeChat services have competition? That's where I've seen the push for better UX: it's a signal to users that your product is overall higher quality. So not so much 'pretty power company technicians' and more 'Is the lobby of the hotel clean?'.

lolpanda 2y ago

Those mini apps are built on the same web stack. I believe the main advantages of creating mini apps are that the platform provides identity (allowing you to know who the users are upon permission approval) and payment APIs.

aquariusDue 2y ago
I believe Telegram has something similar too.
paradite 2y ago
They use a mixture of web rendering stack and native rendering stack. See my other comment. There are also more architectural diagrams thst illustrate the layers in the links I posted in my original comment.

flohofwoe 2y ago

Aren't those just web apps running inside a webview widget? What's "native" about that? (but tbh, at first glance this Hyperview thing looks like it's just re-inventing web browsers too).

anonzzzies 2y ago
When I was still using wechat (and in china); it was a mix; native buttons and payment integrations mixed with webviews for content.
paradite 2y ago
I think the key idea is not the renderer layer, but the concept of DSL so that it can run on multiple platforms natively. To go back to your question. WeChat actually has two sets of renderers for mini programs, one based on webview, and one based on native iOS / Android components. But you are right that most mini programs are using mostly webview to render, with only a few things being natively rendered.

aa-jv 2y ago

The "Western" (whatever that is) tech ecosystem has long had this technology out there .. its the "Western" marketing ecosystem that has been squashing it - for example, Apple quashing any and all use of JITs and VMs in order to keep their native platform relevant ..

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]