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I really, really wish the industry would give the fuck up on resumes. It's such a stupid way to hire. Huge waste of time for all involved, inaccurate, lengthy,

I really, really wish the industry would give the fuck up on resumes. It's such a stupid way to hire. Huge waste of time for all involved, inaccurate, lengthy, difficult. As a hiring manager, I want: - Your references are already vetted and testimonials left on a public profile, private on invite for those who haven't left their job yet - Actual qualifications, like job training and certifications. Even Scrum Training. I want to know you were actually taught the right way at least once, by a reputable source - A written contract that what you say is your experience is true, and that I can use arbitration to seek damages if you lied - A standard set of tests administered by experts chosen at random. - Your requirements to be hired As a candidate, I want: - The salary range, hire type (contract/full-time), benefits - The location - A description of the project you want worked on and skills required - Your company's pitch deck or equivalent - Glassdoor reviews - My name, age, gender, picture, etc are hidden until the company has clicked a button that certifies they are interested in me based on my qualifications. I get that we can't stop hiring bias, but at least make it more obvious when they pass up why they have. We can't we just agree as an industry that we should all pitch in and make this? There's enough capital here, and it's not like we don't know how to build these things. Certainly there's enough people here motivated to work on it.

mixmastamyk 2y ago
Linked in and Glassdoor already exist, though I don't trust Microsoft to administer. Needs an open alternative.
scarface_74 2y ago
All of these signals are problematic. Your references are already vetted and testimonials left on a public profile, No one is going to give you a negative reference on LinkedIn. That doesn’t provide any meaningful signal. Actual qualifications, like job training and certifications. Even Scrum Training. Certifications don’t prove competence. Anyone can memorize enough to pass a multiple choice test and there have been brain dumps for them for decades. I went through the 6 certification .Net “Architect” path back in 2010 basically as a guided learning path with a goal at the end. I knew even back then they were worthless as far as competence and never put them on my resume. More recently, at one point I had 9 of the then 12 AWS certs as late as 2021. I have 6 of the 9 current ones now and I’m working on the other 3 by the end of the year. I got my first one without ever opening the console in 2018. They also served as a guided learning path so I would know what I didn’t know and I could talk the talk. But I don’t consider myself knowing a service until I’ve used them. They are all very shallow marketing certs except I’ve heard good things about the Kubernetes certifications and that they require hands on problem solving. I want to know you were actually taught the right way at least once, by a reputable source How would you know that? I have a degree in CS. I graduated in 1996. Is the source I was taught COBOL and FORTRAN from “reputable” or “relevant”? A written contract that what you say is your experience is true, and that I can use arbitration to seek damages if you lied Arbitration is biased toward the client and the clients industry. The judges don’t get hired if they consistently make judgments that are against the industry that hires them. A standard set of tests administered by experts chosen at random. What I am looking for when hiring is specific to the company. But they have that already - leetCode style interviews that don’t give a signal to whether they are “smart and gets thing done”.
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 2y ago
  K8s certs are not any better, it's just a slightly more practical test (but it falls well short on how most companies use k8s)
throwaway2037 2y ago
This whole post feels like a elaborate troll. Still, I cannot resist replying. > testimonials left on a public profile As a future candidate, what will you do if someone leaves a very negative testimonial about you? > Actual qualifications LOL. Then, it is basically impossible to hire most good programmers, because none of them will have "actual qualifications". To make a joke: Linus Torvalds applies for your latest CRUD role. Has no certifications. "Linus Torvalds? Who is this guy thinking he can apply with no certifications? What a silly git. Next!" > A written contract that what you say is your experience is true, and that I can use arbitration to seek damages if you lied. Likewise: You will be personally liable if the candidate wishes to seek damages via arbitration because you oversold (read: lied about) the role during the interview. Forget about tech for a moment: You can re-write it for hiring people in oil and gas field operations, and it seems just as absurd. Re-write it again for a hospital trying to hire nurses. Still absurd. I picked both of those industries because they are very much learn on the job. Yes, certs exist, but there are many people who work most of their career in those industries with few-to-no certs.
- commandlinefan 2y ago
  > none of them will have "actual qualifications". And for everybody who demands a certificate of some sort, there's somebody else who rejects anybody who _has_ that certificate ("You have an MCSE? Only idiots have MCSEs!")
Kurtcheng 2y ago
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mixmastamyk 2y ago

Linked in and Glassdoor already exist, though I don't trust Microsoft to administer. Needs an open alternative.

scarface_74 2y ago

All of these signals are problematic. Your references are already vetted and testimonials left on a public profile, No one is going to give you a negative reference on LinkedIn. That doesn’t provide any meaningful signal. Actual qualifications, like job training and certifications. Even Scrum Training. Certifications don’t prove competence. Anyone can memorize enough to pass a multiple choice test and there have been brain dumps for them for decades. I went through the 6 certification .Net “Architect” path back in 2010 basically as a guided learning path with a goal at the end. I knew even back then they were worthless as far as competence and never put them on my resume. More recently, at one point I had 9 of the then 12 AWS certs as late as 2021. I have 6 of the 9 current ones now and I’m working on the other 3 by the end of the year. I got my first one without ever opening the console in 2018. They also served as a guided learning path so I would know what I didn’t know and I could talk the talk. But I don’t consider myself knowing a service until I’ve used them. They are all very shallow marketing certs except I’ve heard good things about the Kubernetes certifications and that they require hands on problem solving. I want to know you were actually taught the right way at least once, by a reputable source How would you know that? I have a degree in CS. I graduated in 1996. Is the source I was taught COBOL and FORTRAN from “reputable” or “relevant”? A written contract that what you say is your experience is true, and that I can use arbitration to seek damages if you lied Arbitration is biased toward the client and the clients industry. The judges don’t get hired if they consistently make judgments that are against the industry that hires them. A standard set of tests administered by experts chosen at random. What I am looking for when hiring is specific to the company. But they have that already - leetCode style interviews that don’t give a signal to whether they are “smart and gets thing done”.

isbvhodnvemrwvn 2y ago
K8s certs are not any better, it's just a slightly more practical test (but it falls well short on how most companies use k8s)

throwaway2037 2y ago

This whole post feels like a elaborate troll. Still, I cannot resist replying. > testimonials left on a public profile As a future candidate, what will you do if someone leaves a very negative testimonial about you? > Actual qualifications LOL. Then, it is basically impossible to hire most good programmers, because none of them will have "actual qualifications". To make a joke: Linus Torvalds applies for your latest CRUD role. Has no certifications. "Linus Torvalds? Who is this guy thinking he can apply with no certifications? What a silly git. Next!" > A written contract that what you say is your experience is true, and that I can use arbitration to seek damages if you lied. Likewise: You will be personally liable if the candidate wishes to seek damages via arbitration because you oversold (read: lied about) the role during the interview. Forget about tech for a moment: You can re-write it for hiring people in oil and gas field operations, and it seems just as absurd. Re-write it again for a hospital trying to hire nurses. Still absurd. I picked both of those industries because they are very much learn on the job. Yes, certs exist, but there are many people who work most of their career in those industries with few-to-no certs.

commandlinefan 2y ago
> none of them will have "actual qualifications". And for everybody who demands a certificate of some sort, there's somebody else who rejects anybody who _has_ that certificate ("You have an MCSE? Only idiots have MCSEs!")

Kurtcheng 2y ago

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