3 ms·

Because if two frames are fake and only one frame is based off of real movements, then you've actually lost a fair bit of latency and will have noticably laggie

Because if two frames are fake and only one frame is based off of real movements, then you've actually lost a fair bit of latency and will have noticably laggier controls. Making better looking individual frames and benchmarks for worse gameplay experiences is an old tradition for these GPU makers.

lovich 2y ago
If anyone thinks they are having laggier controls or losing latency off of single frames I have a bridge to sell them. A game running at 60 fps averages around ~16 ms and good human reaction times don’t go much below 200ms. Users who “notice” individual frames are usually noticing when a single frame is lagging for the length of several frames at the average rate. They aren’t noticing anything within the span of an average frame lifetime
- foxhill 2y ago
  you’re conflating reaction times and latency perception. these are not the same. humans can tell the difference down to 10ms, perhaps lower. if you added 200ms latency to your mouse inputs, you’d throw your computer out the of the window pretty quickly.
  - DanielHB 2y ago
    yeah the "distance between frames" latency is just one overhead, everything adds up until you get real latency. 10ms for your wireless mouse then 3ms for your I/O hardware then 5ms for the game engine to process your input then 20ms for the graphics pipeline and so on and on. 30 FPS is 33.33333 MS 60 FPS is 16.66666 MS 90 FPS is 11.11111 MS 120 FPS is 8.333333 MS 140 FPS is 7.142857 MS 144 FPS is 6.944444 MS 180 FPS is 5.555555 MS 240 FPS is 4.166666 MS Going from 30fps to 120fps is 25ms which is totally 100% noticeable even for layman (I actually tested this with my girlfriend, she could tell between 60fps and 120fps as well), but these generated frames from DLSS don't help with this latency _at all_. Although the nVidia Reflex technology can help with this kind of latency in some situations in some non quantifiable ways.
  - yzydserd 2y ago
    Or at least defenestrate the mouse.
- heyda 2y ago
  You think normal people can't tell? Go turn your monitor to 60hz in your video options and move your mouse in circles on your desktop, then go turn it back to 144hz or higher and move it around on your screen. If an average csgo or valorant player where to play with framegen while the real fps was about 60 and the rest of the frames where fake, it would be so completely obvious it's almost laughable. That said the 5090 can obviously run those games at 200+fps so they would just turn off any frame gen stuff. But a new/next gen twitch shooter will for sure expose it.
  - samplatt 2y ago
    >If an average csgo or valorant player were to play with framegen while the real fps was about 60 That's just it isn't. This stuff isn't "only detectable by profession competitive gamers" like many are proposing. It's instantly noticeable to the average gamer.
- swinglock 2y ago
  I'll take that bridge off your hands.
- gmueckl 2y ago
  What I think is going on here has to do with lousy game engine implementations: with modern graphics APIs you have to take extra steps beyond relying on the swapchain to avoid running ahead of the GPU for multiple frames. It's not obvious and and I suspect a lot of games aren't that good at managing that. If the CPU runs ahead, you have a massive multi-frame input-to-screen lag that changes a lot with monitor FPS. But it's not the extra frames themselves that make the difference. It's just correcting for poor code.
- BrawnyBadger53 2y ago
  I can and do notice when a driver update or similar switches my monitor's refresh rate or mouse polling rate down. In the game I play most there is an inbuilt framerate test tool to see what the best framerate you can notice the difference between visually is. I and many other players are consistent (20 correct in a row) up to 720fps.
UltraSane 2y ago
DLSS 4 can actually generate 3 frames for ever 1 raster frame. When talking about frame rates well above 200 per second a few extra frames isn't that big of a deal unless you are a professional competitive gamer.
- sempron64 2y ago
  If you're buying a ridiculously expensive card for gaming you likely consider yourself a pro gamer. I don't think ai interpolation will be popular in the market
  - UltraSane 2y ago
    It really depends on how well it works.

lovich 2y ago

If anyone thinks they are having laggier controls or losing latency off of single frames I have a bridge to sell them. A game running at 60 fps averages around ~16 ms and good human reaction times don’t go much below 200ms. Users who “notice” individual frames are usually noticing when a single frame is lagging for the length of several frames at the average rate. They aren’t noticing anything within the span of an average frame lifetime

foxhill 2y ago
you’re conflating reaction times and latency perception. these are not the same. humans can tell the difference down to 10ms, perhaps lower. if you added 200ms latency to your mouse inputs, you’d throw your computer out the of the window pretty quickly.
- DanielHB 2y ago
  yeah the "distance between frames" latency is just one overhead, everything adds up until you get real latency. 10ms for your wireless mouse then 3ms for your I/O hardware then 5ms for the game engine to process your input then 20ms for the graphics pipeline and so on and on. 30 FPS is 33.33333 MS 60 FPS is 16.66666 MS 90 FPS is 11.11111 MS 120 FPS is 8.333333 MS 140 FPS is 7.142857 MS 144 FPS is 6.944444 MS 180 FPS is 5.555555 MS 240 FPS is 4.166666 MS Going from 30fps to 120fps is 25ms which is totally 100% noticeable even for layman (I actually tested this with my girlfriend, she could tell between 60fps and 120fps as well), but these generated frames from DLSS don't help with this latency _at all_. Although the nVidia Reflex technology can help with this kind of latency in some situations in some non quantifiable ways.
- yzydserd 2y ago
  Or at least defenestrate the mouse.
heyda 2y ago
You think normal people can't tell? Go turn your monitor to 60hz in your video options and move your mouse in circles on your desktop, then go turn it back to 144hz or higher and move it around on your screen. If an average csgo or valorant player where to play with framegen while the real fps was about 60 and the rest of the frames where fake, it would be so completely obvious it's almost laughable. That said the 5090 can obviously run those games at 200+fps so they would just turn off any frame gen stuff. But a new/next gen twitch shooter will for sure expose it.
- samplatt 2y ago
  >If an average csgo or valorant player were to play with framegen while the real fps was about 60 That's just it isn't. This stuff isn't "only detectable by profession competitive gamers" like many are proposing. It's instantly noticeable to the average gamer.
swinglock 2y ago
I'll take that bridge off your hands.
gmueckl 2y ago
What I think is going on here has to do with lousy game engine implementations: with modern graphics APIs you have to take extra steps beyond relying on the swapchain to avoid running ahead of the GPU for multiple frames. It's not obvious and and I suspect a lot of games aren't that good at managing that. If the CPU runs ahead, you have a massive multi-frame input-to-screen lag that changes a lot with monitor FPS. But it's not the extra frames themselves that make the difference. It's just correcting for poor code.
BrawnyBadger53 2y ago
I can and do notice when a driver update or similar switches my monitor's refresh rate or mouse polling rate down. In the game I play most there is an inbuilt framerate test tool to see what the best framerate you can notice the difference between visually is. I and many other players are consistent (20 correct in a row) up to 720fps.

UltraSane 2y ago

DLSS 4 can actually generate 3 frames for ever 1 raster frame. When talking about frame rates well above 200 per second a few extra frames isn't that big of a deal unless you are a professional competitive gamer.

sempron64 2y ago
If you're buying a ridiculously expensive card for gaming you likely consider yourself a pro gamer. I don't think ai interpolation will be popular in the market
- UltraSane 2y ago
  It really depends on how well it works.