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I don't think I disagree with anything you said (though I'm hesitant to call myself creative). I guess when I say "empathy", I also mean "feeling someone's pai

I don't think I disagree with anything you said (though I'm hesitant to call myself creative). I guess when I say "empathy", I also mean "feeling someone's pain", in addition to the "someone else's shoes". I think being able to understand someone's situation, and see how they're actually hurting, and how you'd hurt if someone did that to you, is the part of empathy/kindness that is a key ingredient in being a "decent human". I'm not perfect at it, obviously, I've acted selfishly plenty of times and I regret the times that I have, but it's the closest thing I have to a "moral code". In regards to this kid, I just remember how angry I was at everything when I was 17. I hated going to school, I hated most of my teachers, I hated most of my classmates, I hated girls who wouldn't date me, and I hated guys who wouldn't be my friend. I was an idiot. It's a tough age for anyone, and I think a lot of people (particularly those in charge the US penal codes) forget that fact.

alganet 2y ago
I meant creativity in a broader sense. Like "using stone tools", not "painting and dancing" (but not excluding it!). Kind empathy has been demonstrated in some rats (a highly intelligent animal): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyolz2Qf1ms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyolz2Qf1ms Note the researchers mentioning a "social contagion" that encourages empathy (another one of your kind crying, you cry). The goal of the experiment is to detect an even deeper kind of empathy (the savior rat is also in high stress and must overcome its instincts to save his fellow rat). The thing you did for the kid required much more sophistication than that. Some of that sophistication comes from or manifests as empathy, in the sense that they're correlated. I'm also saying it in a broader sense than only biological in rats. But that's the part that science has no data yet, so that's why I say it comes from my conjecturing ass.
martinmakesgame 2y ago
Empathy is I feel what you feel. Compassion is I understand what you feel, how can we help? It is usually better to aim for compassion because if a person is having a crisis you don't want to go down in flames with them, compassion gives us emotional space to be helpful rather than affected by emotions that can pull us down.
- 542354234235 2y ago
  As someone who tries to be compassionate, with an SO that is highly empathetic, the former is far better. She is often emotionally debilitated by being emotionally devastated by things happening to family, friends, strangers, news stories. I think it actually skews her ability to be compassionate, because she acts in shortsighted ways to attempt to relieve her proxy emotions, instead of taking a step back and finding a better solution to the person suffering. No one that is already empathetic should attempt to increase their empathy. A little goes a long way and you should work on building compassion, understanding, patience, etc.

alganet 2y ago

I meant creativity in a broader sense. Like "using stone tools", not "painting and dancing" (but not excluding it!). Kind empathy has been demonstrated in some rats (a highly intelligent animal): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyolz2Qf1ms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyolz2Qf1ms Note the researchers mentioning a "social contagion" that encourages empathy (another one of your kind crying, you cry). The goal of the experiment is to detect an even deeper kind of empathy (the savior rat is also in high stress and must overcome its instincts to save his fellow rat). The thing you did for the kid required much more sophistication than that. Some of that sophistication comes from or manifests as empathy, in the sense that they're correlated. I'm also saying it in a broader sense than only biological in rats. But that's the part that science has no data yet, so that's why I say it comes from my conjecturing ass.

martinmakesgame 2y ago

Empathy is I feel what you feel. Compassion is I understand what you feel, how can we help? It is usually better to aim for compassion because if a person is having a crisis you don't want to go down in flames with them, compassion gives us emotional space to be helpful rather than affected by emotions that can pull us down.

542354234235 2y ago
As someone who tries to be compassionate, with an SO that is highly empathetic, the former is far better. She is often emotionally debilitated by being emotionally devastated by things happening to family, friends, strangers, news stories. I think it actually skews her ability to be compassionate, because she acts in shortsighted ways to attempt to relieve her proxy emotions, instead of taking a step back and finding a better solution to the person suffering. No one that is already empathetic should attempt to increase their empathy. A little goes a long way and you should work on building compassion, understanding, patience, etc.