5 ms·

I guess i would have done the same. Do they throw 17 yos in jail, where you live? If so, do they do that over stealing a phone? If so... maybe it would be more

I guess i would have done the same. Do they throw 17 yos in jail, where you live? If so, do they do that over stealing a phone? If so... maybe it would be more moral in stepping into a political career and try to change some laws?

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
I knew someone that spent about 18 years in Maximum Security adult prison, from 17, because he burgled the house of an important person. One of the smartest people I ever knew. Probably had an IQ of 140. He was an HVAC tech, and had trouble staying employed. It totally wrecked his life, and he ended badly. Yes, we do that stuff in the US.
- bell-cot 2y ago
  Was his "trouble staying employed" because HVAC bored him out of his mind, or attention span issues, or other factors? The world has plenty of people who are really smart, yet are really not "good employee" material.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
    He was angry. I mean, really angry. He was also very big and intimidating. That didn't help. Most of the anger came from prison, and from being screwed over, to be thrown in there. That can make it difficult to get along with others, and those who don't play well with others, have trouble staying employed. But it's also possible to transcend that kind of thing. I see it regularly. It just takes a lot of work. Painful, humbling, work.
    - tombert 2y ago
      I can't even imagine how much prison would fuck me up. Between potential sexual abuse, being around a lot of violent people, the general disregard Americans have for prisoners and convicted felons and their well-being, and the "doing what you have to to survive" mentality that seems to scar incarcerated people, it would be hard for it not to change you as a person. I really hate how the US handles prisons, and I really hate the "lock them up and throw away the key" mentality we have here. I hope it's obvious, that's not something I agree with.
    - bell-cot 2y ago
      > He was also very big and intimidating. I'll bet that was unhelpful at age 17, when our <cough/> justice system was deciding his fate.
    - scotty79 2y ago
      But he did burgle a house, so obviously he had some pre-existing behavioral issues, right? And those are probably not gone. > Most of the anger came from prison, and from being screwed over, to be thrown in there. That clearly illustrates that he didn't progress at all in his understanding of life. I'd be afraid to live within few kilometers of him let alone having him work at my company if I had one
      - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
        Yup. He never adjusted. He was always acting as if he was still in The Yard.
        scotty79 2y ago
        My point was, he might have already been acting as if he was in The Yard before they put him in The Yard.
        ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
        Maybe, but I didn't know him, before. I have, however, been dealing with after-incarceration folks for a few decades, and there's a particular type of attitude that is absolutely required to survive, inside, and that must be completely stripped away, once they get out, as it is pure poison, outside the wall.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Sounds really unusual for a first offense at that age even for burglary. So I assume there’s more to the story.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
    Yeah. He never got specific, but I think so. However, this was also "Down South," where the rich folks literally have the prosecutors and police on their payroll.
tombert 2y ago
Tons of factors in the US for this stuff; which state you're in, how they stole the phone (e.g. violent vs. just grabbing it off a table when the owner isn't looking), prior history, if they're tried as a child vs adult, and (let's be honest) if they can afford a good lawyer. It definitely wouldn't be "weird" to throw a 17 year old in jail for stealing an iPhone, particularly in my case it would likely have been tried as a "mugging" and I suspect classified in the "violent" category (even though I was unharmed). I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted to throw the book at this kid, it did kind of cause a bit of frustration and trauma that I still haven't completely worked through, but I still think I made the right choice, even if everyone else in my life disagrees.
geodel 2y ago
Sure. Though politician more likely to win would be one who's hardliner on crime and propose tough laws not compassionate ones.
soulofmischief 2y ago
A friend of mine got life in prison with no parole at 17. I myself got 6 months jail time at 17 after being subject to a highly illegal and corrupt legal racket in a small town, when a meth-dealing police officer planted weed on me at the scene of an accident. I was also homeless. Good times.
- AlgorithmicTime 2y ago
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ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago

I knew someone that spent about 18 years in Maximum Security adult prison, from 17, because he burgled the house of an important person. One of the smartest people I ever knew. Probably had an IQ of 140. He was an HVAC tech, and had trouble staying employed. It totally wrecked his life, and he ended badly. Yes, we do that stuff in the US.

bell-cot 2y ago
Was his "trouble staying employed" because HVAC bored him out of his mind, or attention span issues, or other factors? The world has plenty of people who are really smart, yet are really not "good employee" material.
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  He was angry. I mean, really angry. He was also very big and intimidating. That didn't help. Most of the anger came from prison, and from being screwed over, to be thrown in there. That can make it difficult to get along with others, and those who don't play well with others, have trouble staying employed. But it's also possible to transcend that kind of thing. I see it regularly. It just takes a lot of work. Painful, humbling, work.
  - tombert 2y ago
    I can't even imagine how much prison would fuck me up. Between potential sexual abuse, being around a lot of violent people, the general disregard Americans have for prisoners and convicted felons and their well-being, and the "doing what you have to to survive" mentality that seems to scar incarcerated people, it would be hard for it not to change you as a person. I really hate how the US handles prisons, and I really hate the "lock them up and throw away the key" mentality we have here. I hope it's obvious, that's not something I agree with.
  - bell-cot 2y ago
    > He was also very big and intimidating. I'll bet that was unhelpful at age 17, when our <cough/> justice system was deciding his fate.
  - scotty79 2y ago
    But he did burgle a house, so obviously he had some pre-existing behavioral issues, right? And those are probably not gone. > Most of the anger came from prison, and from being screwed over, to be thrown in there. That clearly illustrates that he didn't progress at all in his understanding of life. I'd be afraid to live within few kilometers of him let alone having him work at my company if I had one
    - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
      Yup. He never adjusted. He was always acting as if he was still in The Yard.
      - scotty79 2y ago
        My point was, he might have already been acting as if he was in The Yard before they put him in The Yard.
        ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
        Maybe, but I didn't know him, before. I have, however, been dealing with after-incarceration folks for a few decades, and there's a particular type of attitude that is absolutely required to survive, inside, and that must be completely stripped away, once they get out, as it is pure poison, outside the wall.
SoftTalker 2y ago
Sounds really unusual for a first offense at that age even for burglary. So I assume there’s more to the story.
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  Yeah. He never got specific, but I think so. However, this was also "Down South," where the rich folks literally have the prosecutors and police on their payroll.

tombert 2y ago

Tons of factors in the US for this stuff; which state you're in, how they stole the phone (e.g. violent vs. just grabbing it off a table when the owner isn't looking), prior history, if they're tried as a child vs adult, and (let's be honest) if they can afford a good lawyer. It definitely wouldn't be "weird" to throw a 17 year old in jail for stealing an iPhone, particularly in my case it would likely have been tried as a "mugging" and I suspect classified in the "violent" category (even though I was unharmed). I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted to throw the book at this kid, it did kind of cause a bit of frustration and trauma that I still haven't completely worked through, but I still think I made the right choice, even if everyone else in my life disagrees.

geodel 2y ago

Sure. Though politician more likely to win would be one who's hardliner on crime and propose tough laws not compassionate ones.

soulofmischief 2y ago

A friend of mine got life in prison with no parole at 17. I myself got 6 months jail time at 17 after being subject to a highly illegal and corrupt legal racket in a small town, when a meth-dealing police officer planted weed on me at the scene of an accident. I was also homeless. Good times.

AlgorithmicTime 2y ago
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