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> because the word for delay in French is offensive in English It's also the word for delay in English.

by tshaddox 2y ago

stronglikedan 2y ago
It's also not offensive in English, even though some virtue signalers insist on taking offense to it.
- hcurtiss 2y ago
  Right. I made a reference to educational development being retarded due to COVID restrictions and the very people you'd expect to be offended were of course offended.
  - barbazoo 2y ago
    Perhaps because virtually no one uses the term in that context anymore. It is often best to avoid ambiguity when posting online.
    - zahlman 2y ago
      My own experience is the exact opposite. Out of all the times in my life I can recall ever having heard the word "retarded" used, I cannot think of any reason to suspect that any of them were meant as anything other than a synonym for "idiotic". Which, of course, also referred to clinical mental disability at some point in history. As did "moronic", "imbecilic" and others. But nowadays they're really all just strong forms of "stupid". Even in contexts where generic insults directed at people are not tolerated, it should be acceptable to recognize stupid ideas as such.
      - BHSPitMonkey 2y ago
        I think you've misunderstood, then. The GP's comment was using it in the technical sense (slowed/delayed, not the common "that's so dumb" form you've observed).
        zahlman 2y ago
        Ah. The comment was: >Right. I made a reference to educational development being retarded due to COVID restrictions and the very people you'd expect to be offended were of course offended. I misread that, and interpreted "retarded" as being a subjective judgment applied to the restrictions. That said, the reading "[the process of] educational development has a mental disability" is utterly incoherent, so I still see no reasonable justification for taking offense.
    - gitaarik 2y ago
      I think it's important to remember the real meaning of words. If you know language better, you can understand a lot more information, and you can express yourself better. Knowing the meaning and origin of words give you great insights into things. Just because some childish people are misusing the word for some time, we shouldn't just ditch it like that. Words go back a long time. We should just remove the negative use of it. And we do that by growing up, not by banning words.
    - rascul 2y ago
      Mechanics might retard or advance the ignition timing in an engine.
- pests 2y ago
  Nah it’s offensive. Just because you don’t take issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt others.
  - not2b 2y ago
    Using it as a noun or in name-calling is offensive, as a verb it isn't.
    - gitaarik 2y ago
      Oh yeah? Why?
  - renewiltord 2y ago
    I’m glad we’re moving on from the world where everyone would constantly be yelling “You’re hurting me! You’re hurting me!”.
  - michaelsbradley 2y ago
    An alternative is to use “on the spectrum”. For example, your s.o. or someone else you’re arguing with is getting on your nerves so you say: “Hey! are you on the spectrum today or what?”
  - swatcoder 2y ago
    They're not suggesting that they don't take issue, and so they don't need to take offense seriously. They're suggesting that the people who conceivably might take issue generally don't and are instead being patronized by and condescended to by privileged, unaffiliated outsiders who assume -- without consent -- to speak on their behalf. And they don't take those people seriously. It's totally reasonable to disagree with that view, but it's the not the same view your reply tries to engage with.
    - ksenzee 2y ago
      No, you’re expressing a different, more lucid point of view (“the people who conceivably might take issue generally don’t”), which can be engaged with. For example, I would argue that it’s reasonable to take offense on behalf of people who can’t be part of the conversation at hand. (Otherwise it would be fine for whites to spew racist slurs in a group of only white people. If we disagree on that, we’re having the wrong conversation.) I would also point out that taking offense on behalf of others is a time-honored practice (“nobody says that about my little brother and gets away with it!”) But the GP (GGP?) did not say “the people who conceivably might take issue generally don’t.” They didn’t say “no one has standing to be offended by this term.” They just said “it’s not offensive” about a term that is offensive enough that we’re having an entire argument about it. That’s schoolyard-level discourse.
- ternnoburn 2y ago
  It's widely regarded as a slur.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  hi retard, good post :)
- wat10000 2y ago
  Offense is all about context. It is objectively quite offensive when used as a term for a person. (“Objectively” works here because a word being offensive is determined by how people view it. The views are subjective but the prevalence of those view is not.)
- barbazoo 2y ago
  There's offensive use of that term in English, for sure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retard_(pejorative) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retard_(pejorative)
- tshaddox 2y ago
  Have you ever seen someone use the slur without intending the same mean-spiritedness that the "virtue signalers" are taking offense to?
  - hug 2y ago
    As someone who works adjacent to rail operations, it's somewhat common to see used in a completely straight-faced and serious way. Plant failing to be properly retarded is a somewhat regular cause of near-miss safety incidents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retarder_(railroad) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retarder_(railroad)
  - zahlman 2y ago
    That's the thing. They aren't taking offense to mean-spiritedness directed at the person being referred to that way, except in cases where that person actually does have such an intellectual disability. And such language is normally directed at people of ordinary intelligence, to call them out for failing to think things through when they're perfectly capable of it. There are, and should be, contexts where insulting people is socially acceptable and where such insults should not be censored. And no matter what words you use (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/euphemism_treadmill https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/euphemism_treadmill), it's fundamentally impossible to get rid of the idea that a lack of (demonstrated) intelligence is inherently negative. (It's noteworthy to me that the same activists don't seem to be able to identify any terms denoting lack of physical strength that are inherently offensive - except insofar as they invoke gender stereotypes. Why should it be any less objectionable to call someone a "weakling", for example?)
    - tshaddox 2y ago
      The criticism of the target’s intelligence or competence isn’t the mean-spiritedness I’m referring to. I’m referring to the deliberate and inherent mean-spiritedness towards people with intellectual disabilities that the slur is explicitly invoking.
      - zahlman 2y ago
- danpalmer 2y ago
  Language is what we make of it, it's not a fixed concept. If people take offense to it then it's offensive.
  - netsharc 2y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzdpxKqEUAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzdpxKqEUAw As Stephen Fry said: "So fucking what?". A thumbs-up gesture is offensive in the Middle East, should it be banned world-wide? Funnily enough the original example upthread was the use of the word "retard" which is harmless in French, which ended up getting the user in trouble.
- tayo42 2y ago
  dang, can i can him a retard and not get flagged or banned? hah
ben_w 2y ago
I've only ever seen it used to mean "delay" in occasional technical contexts, e.g. "fire retardant material", in practice it seems to be mostly a noun that means "stupid person".
- londons_explore 2y ago
  The words have the same meaning - "person with slowed down intellectual development"
  - ben_w 2y ago
    "Developing intellect slowly" implies they're going to reach full intelligence at some point. "Retard" means "thick", in this context, not "will get there eventually". The technical definition is not how the euphemism is used.
    - quesera 2y ago
      It's not a euphemism. It's an epithet. There's an interesting etymology of "retarded". Also "idiot", "imbecile", "moron", etc. These were clinical classifications, initially used in the early days of psychology and sometimes overlapping discredited ideas like eugenics. But these were diagnoses -- you could be determined to be an idiot, which was worse than being an imbecile, which was worse than being a moron -- by a respected doctor. Of course, schoolyard kids got a hold of the terms and used them to disparage their (probably cognitively healthy) peers. And so with "retarded" and "disabled" etc. But "retarded" just means "slowed or delayed". Developmentally speaking, especially when surrounded by other kids in your same age group, that's a noticeably difficult thing to be. It does not mean (and never meant) that you are certain to reach full cognitive ability eventually. Flights that are delayed are sometimes also cancelled.
- mr_toad 2y ago
  Retarded timing is a common term in reference to a car’s ignition. And in biology, retarded growth is often used.
yread 2y ago
you can also retard the thrust levers
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

> because the word for delay in French is offensive in English It's also the word for delay in English.

stronglikedan 2y ago

It's also not offensive in English, even though some virtue signalers insist on taking offense to it.

hcurtiss 2y ago
Right. I made a reference to educational development being retarded due to COVID restrictions and the very people you'd expect to be offended were of course offended.
- barbazoo 2y ago
  Perhaps because virtually no one uses the term in that context anymore. It is often best to avoid ambiguity when posting online.
  - zahlman 2y ago
    My own experience is the exact opposite. Out of all the times in my life I can recall ever having heard the word "retarded" used, I cannot think of any reason to suspect that any of them were meant as anything other than a synonym for "idiotic". Which, of course, also referred to clinical mental disability at some point in history. As did "moronic", "imbecilic" and others. But nowadays they're really all just strong forms of "stupid". Even in contexts where generic insults directed at people are not tolerated, it should be acceptable to recognize stupid ideas as such.
    - BHSPitMonkey 2y ago
      I think you've misunderstood, then. The GP's comment was using it in the technical sense (slowed/delayed, not the common "that's so dumb" form you've observed).
      - zahlman 2y ago
        Ah. The comment was: >Right. I made a reference to educational development being retarded due to COVID restrictions and the very people you'd expect to be offended were of course offended. I misread that, and interpreted "retarded" as being a subjective judgment applied to the restrictions. That said, the reading "[the process of] educational development has a mental disability" is utterly incoherent, so I still see no reasonable justification for taking offense.
  - gitaarik 2y ago
    I think it's important to remember the real meaning of words. If you know language better, you can understand a lot more information, and you can express yourself better. Knowing the meaning and origin of words give you great insights into things. Just because some childish people are misusing the word for some time, we shouldn't just ditch it like that. Words go back a long time. We should just remove the negative use of it. And we do that by growing up, not by banning words.
  - rascul 2y ago
    Mechanics might retard or advance the ignition timing in an engine.
pests 2y ago
Nah it’s offensive. Just because you don’t take issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt others.
- not2b 2y ago
  Using it as a noun or in name-calling is offensive, as a verb it isn't.
  - gitaarik 2y ago
    Oh yeah? Why?
- renewiltord 2y ago
  I’m glad we’re moving on from the world where everyone would constantly be yelling “You’re hurting me! You’re hurting me!”.
- michaelsbradley 2y ago
  An alternative is to use “on the spectrum”. For example, your s.o. or someone else you’re arguing with is getting on your nerves so you say: “Hey! are you on the spectrum today or what?”
- swatcoder 2y ago
  They're not suggesting that they don't take issue, and so they don't need to take offense seriously. They're suggesting that the people who conceivably might take issue generally don't and are instead being patronized by and condescended to by privileged, unaffiliated outsiders who assume -- without consent -- to speak on their behalf. And they don't take those people seriously. It's totally reasonable to disagree with that view, but it's the not the same view your reply tries to engage with.
  - ksenzee 2y ago
    No, you’re expressing a different, more lucid point of view (“the people who conceivably might take issue generally don’t”), which can be engaged with. For example, I would argue that it’s reasonable to take offense on behalf of people who can’t be part of the conversation at hand. (Otherwise it would be fine for whites to spew racist slurs in a group of only white people. If we disagree on that, we’re having the wrong conversation.) I would also point out that taking offense on behalf of others is a time-honored practice (“nobody says that about my little brother and gets away with it!”) But the GP (GGP?) did not say “the people who conceivably might take issue generally don’t.” They didn’t say “no one has standing to be offended by this term.” They just said “it’s not offensive” about a term that is offensive enough that we’re having an entire argument about it. That’s schoolyard-level discourse.
ternnoburn 2y ago
It's widely regarded as a slur.
bdangubic 2y ago
hi retard, good post :)
wat10000 2y ago
Offense is all about context. It is objectively quite offensive when used as a term for a person. (“Objectively” works here because a word being offensive is determined by how people view it. The views are subjective but the prevalence of those view is not.)
barbazoo 2y ago
There's offensive use of that term in English, for sure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retard_(pejorative) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retard_(pejorative)
tshaddox 2y ago
Have you ever seen someone use the slur without intending the same mean-spiritedness that the "virtue signalers" are taking offense to?
- hug 2y ago
  As someone who works adjacent to rail operations, it's somewhat common to see used in a completely straight-faced and serious way. Plant failing to be properly retarded is a somewhat regular cause of near-miss safety incidents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retarder_(railroad) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retarder_(railroad)
- zahlman 2y ago
  That's the thing. They aren't taking offense to mean-spiritedness directed at the person being referred to that way, except in cases where that person actually does have such an intellectual disability. And such language is normally directed at people of ordinary intelligence, to call them out for failing to think things through when they're perfectly capable of it. There are, and should be, contexts where insulting people is socially acceptable and where such insults should not be censored. And no matter what words you use (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/euphemism_treadmill https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/euphemism_treadmill), it's fundamentally impossible to get rid of the idea that a lack of (demonstrated) intelligence is inherently negative. (It's noteworthy to me that the same activists don't seem to be able to identify any terms denoting lack of physical strength that are inherently offensive - except insofar as they invoke gender stereotypes. Why should it be any less objectionable to call someone a "weakling", for example?)
  - tshaddox 2y ago
    The criticism of the target’s intelligence or competence isn’t the mean-spiritedness I’m referring to. I’m referring to the deliberate and inherent mean-spiritedness towards people with intellectual disabilities that the slur is explicitly invoking.
    - zahlman 2y ago
danpalmer 2y ago
Language is what we make of it, it's not a fixed concept. If people take offense to it then it's offensive.
- netsharc 2y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzdpxKqEUAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzdpxKqEUAw As Stephen Fry said: "So fucking what?". A thumbs-up gesture is offensive in the Middle East, should it be banned world-wide? Funnily enough the original example upthread was the use of the word "retard" which is harmless in French, which ended up getting the user in trouble.
tayo42 2y ago
dang, can i can him a retard and not get flagged or banned? hah

ben_w 2y ago

I've only ever seen it used to mean "delay" in occasional technical contexts, e.g. "fire retardant material", in practice it seems to be mostly a noun that means "stupid person".

londons_explore 2y ago
The words have the same meaning - "person with slowed down intellectual development"
- ben_w 2y ago
  "Developing intellect slowly" implies they're going to reach full intelligence at some point. "Retard" means "thick", in this context, not "will get there eventually". The technical definition is not how the euphemism is used.
  - quesera 2y ago
    It's not a euphemism. It's an epithet. There's an interesting etymology of "retarded". Also "idiot", "imbecile", "moron", etc. These were clinical classifications, initially used in the early days of psychology and sometimes overlapping discredited ideas like eugenics. But these were diagnoses -- you could be determined to be an idiot, which was worse than being an imbecile, which was worse than being a moron -- by a respected doctor. Of course, schoolyard kids got a hold of the terms and used them to disparage their (probably cognitively healthy) peers. And so with "retarded" and "disabled" etc. But "retarded" just means "slowed or delayed". Developmentally speaking, especially when surrounded by other kids in your same age group, that's a noticeably difficult thing to be. It does not mean (and never meant) that you are certain to reach full cognitive ability eventually. Flights that are delayed are sometimes also cancelled.
mr_toad 2y ago
Retarded timing is a common term in reference to a car’s ignition. And in biology, retarded growth is often used.

yread 2y ago

you can also retard the thrust levers

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]