5 ms·

It's interesting how the Steam OS option is positioned as the cheap choice for the casual gamer. On the surface level it looks it bit like the half-assed Linux

It's interesting how the Steam OS option is positioned as the cheap choice for the casual gamer. On the surface level it looks it bit like the half-assed Linux efforts for the Steam Machines and EEE PCs. This time the software - if it works as well as on the Steam Deck - is arguably more user friendly than Windows. So it would have been nice for linux to also be a "premium" option. On the other hand the Go S with Steam OS has a real chance to compare well against its more expensive Windows version.

freedomben 2y ago
I've thought about this too, and given that Valve is brilliant when it comes to pricing, I suspect that they have data showing that gamers are well aware of the "Windows Tax" and expect to not have to pay it for a Linux-based device. I want to be conservative advancing that theory as confirmation bias is a real risk (since that describes me perfectly) but I do see little bits of reinforcing evidence around.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  The way Microsoft killed EEE PC movement was by removing the Windows Tax, the moment OEMs no longer needed to pay for Windows on EEE PC style devices, they were mostly gone in one year, and the new tablets segment killed the remaining survivors. Lets be real, with SteamOS having a Windows ecosytem, it is about saving Windows licenses mostly, and not really fostering a GNU/Linux gaming ecosystem.
tombert 2y ago
My main gaming PC is one of those cheapy "mini gaming pcs" you get on Amazon for like $350. I installed NixOS on there, and have it automatically boot into GameScope with the SteamOS interface. After I got everything set up (which wasn't hard), the amount of maintenance I've had to do on there is zero. SteamOS managed to make desktop Linux accessible to basically anyone; it was easy to build my own game console that I enjoy considerably more than my Xbox One that I never bother with. Valve has made desktop Linux a lot more viable than I ever thought would happen.
- bsimpson 2y ago
  > which wasn't hard You must have used NixOS before, or had hardware that worked perfectly with a default config.
  - tombert 2y ago
    Well, both are true in this case :) If you mostly deal with AMD stuff, most things "just work" with Linux. In my case, WiFi worked out of the box, graphics driver loaded fine, sound driver worked fine.
gorgonzolachz 2y ago
I assume the chief reasoning behind this decision twofold. First, it's a crapshoot to get alternative stores working on my steam deck (I wouldn't expect my less technical gamer friends to feel confident installing a game from Epic/EA/Ubisoft). It's also a financial decision, as Valve presumably isn't charging the OEMs a licensing fee. In a market that's getting more crowded by the day, where so many of their competitors are using the same SoC and come in at roughly the same price point, it's a rational decision to control costs as much as possible. Not to mention, they also need to compete against the Deck itself, which Valve is subsidizing to hit its pricepoint. The alternative would be to innovate and differentiate your product offering from your competitors (like the original Legion Go, which had detachable controllers and a fancy pseudo-mouse). The fact that this machine didn't carry those features forward is a strong signal that the bottom of the market is where the early wins will be. Keep in mind also that Microsoft is planning their own handheld xbox experience. Speculation: MS' effort will look a lot like Valve's, with Xbox games coming day-and-date to OEM-built handhelds, as well as a first party reference implementation that's intended as a benchmark for devs. I imagine that most OEMs are using the cheaper steamOS pricing as a hedge against future gouging from MS; if there's an "Xbox certification process" that proves to be too cumbersome, a vendor that's already shipping cheap(er) devices en masse with SteamOS has the option of simply dropping windows support altogether.
- BlueTemplar 2y ago
  It's a crapshoot to make Ubisoft games to work on Windows desktop PC already. On one hand you have the shitty and/or DRM-plagued stores, on another you have DRM-free ones like GoG, Humble Bundle, Itch.io... which in my experience Just Work (tm) in a few clicks thanks to the likes of Lutris launcher/Proton/Wine. (And in the middle, Steam(OS) to rule them all.) P.S.: I've heard that Battle.net games also work easily and well, but I don't know how long this will last with Microsoft buying Activision-Blizzard and Valve ramping up their fight against Windows...
pjmlp 2y ago
Like EEE PCs, this will only work while Microsoft decides to tolerate Proton and the way Valve runs Windows applications on a Linux distribution. The day they decide it has been long enough, like they did with XP licence that ended up wiping EEE PC, Valve would have wished to have fostered a native GNU/Linux ecosystem instead.
- wqaatwt 2y ago
  Presumably the EU/etc. would go after them if they tried something like this? Besides desktop isn’t really as important to MS these days as it used to be. > fostered a native GNU/Linux Wouldn’t that require a stable ABI and such? Making Linux binary/proprietary software friendly seems like a much harder task than [potentially] fighting MS over the right to reimplement their APIs.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Yes, and? SteamOS can provide such ABI, just like Google does with Android.
    - wqaatwt 2y ago
      So it wouldn’t be native Linux? Why build something from scratch when Wine/Proton is already there and is pretty much the same thing? Of course that would be the trivial (if still very complicated and expensive on its own) part, incentivizing developers to invest the amount of resources needed to port their games to a new platform (which would have single digit % market share at best) would be a lot harder. Sure there might be some risks. But I don’t really see why MS would be bothered to actually try and kill Wine. The risk of antitrust etc. would be very high and MS wouldn’t gain too much from this anyway. Besides.. the Supreme Court already ruled in favor of Google over the Java/Oracle thing not sure how would this be much different.
      - pjmlp 2y ago
        It would be native SteamOS, which is more native Linux than Android or ChromeOS will ever be, and still people call those Linux distributions. Because Valve castle is on Windows kingdom, and it might learn about OS/2 the hard way.

freedomben 2y ago

I've thought about this too, and given that Valve is brilliant when it comes to pricing, I suspect that they have data showing that gamers are well aware of the "Windows Tax" and expect to not have to pay it for a Linux-based device. I want to be conservative advancing that theory as confirmation bias is a real risk (since that describes me perfectly) but I do see little bits of reinforcing evidence around.

pjmlp 2y ago
The way Microsoft killed EEE PC movement was by removing the Windows Tax, the moment OEMs no longer needed to pay for Windows on EEE PC style devices, they were mostly gone in one year, and the new tablets segment killed the remaining survivors. Lets be real, with SteamOS having a Windows ecosytem, it is about saving Windows licenses mostly, and not really fostering a GNU/Linux gaming ecosystem.

tombert 2y ago

My main gaming PC is one of those cheapy "mini gaming pcs" you get on Amazon for like $350. I installed NixOS on there, and have it automatically boot into GameScope with the SteamOS interface. After I got everything set up (which wasn't hard), the amount of maintenance I've had to do on there is zero. SteamOS managed to make desktop Linux accessible to basically anyone; it was easy to build my own game console that I enjoy considerably more than my Xbox One that I never bother with. Valve has made desktop Linux a lot more viable than I ever thought would happen.

bsimpson 2y ago
> which wasn't hard You must have used NixOS before, or had hardware that worked perfectly with a default config.
- tombert 2y ago
  Well, both are true in this case :) If you mostly deal with AMD stuff, most things "just work" with Linux. In my case, WiFi worked out of the box, graphics driver loaded fine, sound driver worked fine.

gorgonzolachz 2y ago

I assume the chief reasoning behind this decision twofold. First, it's a crapshoot to get alternative stores working on my steam deck (I wouldn't expect my less technical gamer friends to feel confident installing a game from Epic/EA/Ubisoft). It's also a financial decision, as Valve presumably isn't charging the OEMs a licensing fee. In a market that's getting more crowded by the day, where so many of their competitors are using the same SoC and come in at roughly the same price point, it's a rational decision to control costs as much as possible. Not to mention, they also need to compete against the Deck itself, which Valve is subsidizing to hit its pricepoint. The alternative would be to innovate and differentiate your product offering from your competitors (like the original Legion Go, which had detachable controllers and a fancy pseudo-mouse). The fact that this machine didn't carry those features forward is a strong signal that the bottom of the market is where the early wins will be. Keep in mind also that Microsoft is planning their own handheld xbox experience. Speculation: MS' effort will look a lot like Valve's, with Xbox games coming day-and-date to OEM-built handhelds, as well as a first party reference implementation that's intended as a benchmark for devs. I imagine that most OEMs are using the cheaper steamOS pricing as a hedge against future gouging from MS; if there's an "Xbox certification process" that proves to be too cumbersome, a vendor that's already shipping cheap(er) devices en masse with SteamOS has the option of simply dropping windows support altogether.

BlueTemplar 2y ago
It's a crapshoot to make Ubisoft games to work on Windows desktop PC already. On one hand you have the shitty and/or DRM-plagued stores, on another you have DRM-free ones like GoG, Humble Bundle, Itch.io... which in my experience Just Work (tm) in a few clicks thanks to the likes of Lutris launcher/Proton/Wine. (And in the middle, Steam(OS) to rule them all.) P.S.: I've heard that Battle.net games also work easily and well, but I don't know how long this will last with Microsoft buying Activision-Blizzard and Valve ramping up their fight against Windows...

pjmlp 2y ago

Like EEE PCs, this will only work while Microsoft decides to tolerate Proton and the way Valve runs Windows applications on a Linux distribution. The day they decide it has been long enough, like they did with XP licence that ended up wiping EEE PC, Valve would have wished to have fostered a native GNU/Linux ecosystem instead.

wqaatwt 2y ago
Presumably the EU/etc. would go after them if they tried something like this? Besides desktop isn’t really as important to MS these days as it used to be. > fostered a native GNU/Linux Wouldn’t that require a stable ABI and such? Making Linux binary/proprietary software friendly seems like a much harder task than [potentially] fighting MS over the right to reimplement their APIs.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Yes, and? SteamOS can provide such ABI, just like Google does with Android.
  - wqaatwt 2y ago
    So it wouldn’t be native Linux? Why build something from scratch when Wine/Proton is already there and is pretty much the same thing? Of course that would be the trivial (if still very complicated and expensive on its own) part, incentivizing developers to invest the amount of resources needed to port their games to a new platform (which would have single digit % market share at best) would be a lot harder. Sure there might be some risks. But I don’t really see why MS would be bothered to actually try and kill Wine. The risk of antitrust etc. would be very high and MS wouldn’t gain too much from this anyway. Besides.. the Supreme Court already ruled in favor of Google over the Java/Oracle thing not sure how would this be much different.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      It would be native SteamOS, which is more native Linux than Android or ChromeOS will ever be, and still people call those Linux distributions. Because Valve castle is on Windows kingdom, and it might learn about OS/2 the hard way.