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that same independence is the reason it's not subject to the political whims of whoever is in power at a given time, which is important for the long term health

that same independence is the reason it's not subject to the political whims of whoever is in power at a given time, which is important for the long term health of the economy. "The people" did decide this - as congress gave the fed that independence

aaomidi 2y ago
The independence could still have stipulations that require FOIA.
npoc 2y ago
Sounds good until you discover that its the people who own the fed that are really in power. Everyone should read at least the first few chapters of "The Creature from Jekyll Island" to understand how much money (power) they have.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > until you discover that its the people who own the fed that are really in power This is nonsense. The President and Congress control the Fed. And nobody can knowledgeably claim, today, that its banking members (legally, its shareholders) are more powerful than America’s non-bank financial institutions (e.g. Blackrock or Brookfield). The greatest boon our billionaire class could inherit is a politically-controlled Fed. It’s why one of any autocrat’s first moves is bringing the central bank under their control.
  - npoc 2y ago
    It's not nonsense. The banking system printed every dollar out of thin air and is charging interest on every single one (giving a cut to government). For decades and decades. I made a post earlier detailing the mechanism they use to extract the wealth from us: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42621878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42621878
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > banking system printed every dollar out of thin air and is charging interest on every single one (giving a cut to government) This is also nonsense, though less so. Money is created by private banks through lending. The government gets a cut, but that comes through taxation. Money creation is complicated, but it seems like every year someone watches a YouTube video about inflation and deduces, with zero further thought, that it must be a conspiracy.
      - npoc 2y ago
        > Money is created by private banks through lending. Exactly. Every single dollar was created from thin air, as a "loan". > it seems like every year someone watches a YouTube video about inflation and deduces, with zero further thought, that it must be a conspiracy. I've been studying and researching this for years.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Every single dollar was created from thin air, as a "loan" Not quite. Minted currency isn’t created from a loan. Neither is fiscal spending. On the other side of the spectrum, money is destroyed through taxation (by the state) and repayment of debts and defaults (privately). The monetary hypothesis of income inequality is overly simplistic. It supposes our tax, trade and funding policies are all dictated by monetary policy, which is obviously nonsense. (That or our tax, trade and social spending policies have no effect on inequality. Which is obviously stupid.) It is an easily-digested hypothesis. We like those, particularly when the alternative is reading lots of arcane monetary financial texts.
        licnep 2y ago
        Fiscal spending is still created as a loan though since the government has to sell bonds to finance it, no?
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
phyzix5761 2y ago
I'm curious which country you reside in where congress does the will of the people because I'm in the US and that's definitely not true here. EDIT: Getting a lot of hate on this comment so allow me to clarify what I meant. In the US we have a Constitutional Republic meaning elected representatives write the laws. People are not voting directly on laws and issues (on a federal level). The parent comment said that "The People decided this" but that's not an accurate statement. Congress decided this regardless of what people actually wanted. In fact, the public was largely divided on whether they wanted a Federal reserve during this time.
- 9question1 2y ago
  You greatly overestimate the quality of the will of the people. Just because you don't like certain outcomes because they are stupid doesn't mean that those outcomes aren't what people wanted. Democratic institutions are a much more accurate way of reflecting the will of the people than most other attempts to measure that, for many reasons including the existence of people who don't respond to surveys but vote.
  - greenavocado 2y ago
    Democratic institutions can be subverted with first past the post voting systems and the illusion of choice amongst the most vocal and well funded parties
    - CamperBob2 2y ago
      You know what the technical term for a subverted democracy is? "Democracy." Also known as, "Five people with an IQ of 90 outvoting four people with an IQ of 110," or "One person in Iowa canceling two votes in California."
      - llamaimperative 2y ago
        Eh, the (growing) insanity of the electoral college is not a necessary feature of a democracy.
CrimsonCape 2y ago
I don't know enough about the subject to assign "blame", however I assume it would be the Fed's obligation to blame the political whims of Congress for the massive inflation of national debt, wouldn't it? The Fed only creates money in response to Congress, correct?

aaomidi 2y ago

The independence could still have stipulations that require FOIA.

npoc 2y ago

Sounds good until you discover that its the people who own the fed that are really in power. Everyone should read at least the first few chapters of "The Creature from Jekyll Island" to understand how much money (power) they have.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> until you discover that its the people who own the fed that are really in power This is nonsense. The President and Congress control the Fed. And nobody can knowledgeably claim, today, that its banking members (legally, its shareholders) are more powerful than America’s non-bank financial institutions (e.g. Blackrock or Brookfield). The greatest boon our billionaire class could inherit is a politically-controlled Fed. It’s why one of any autocrat’s first moves is bringing the central bank under their control.
- npoc 2y ago
  It's not nonsense. The banking system printed every dollar out of thin air and is charging interest on every single one (giving a cut to government). For decades and decades. I made a post earlier detailing the mechanism they use to extract the wealth from us: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42621878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42621878
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > banking system printed every dollar out of thin air and is charging interest on every single one (giving a cut to government) This is also nonsense, though less so. Money is created by private banks through lending. The government gets a cut, but that comes through taxation. Money creation is complicated, but it seems like every year someone watches a YouTube video about inflation and deduces, with zero further thought, that it must be a conspiracy.
    - npoc 2y ago
      > Money is created by private banks through lending. Exactly. Every single dollar was created from thin air, as a "loan". > it seems like every year someone watches a YouTube video about inflation and deduces, with zero further thought, that it must be a conspiracy. I've been studying and researching this for years.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Every single dollar was created from thin air, as a "loan" Not quite. Minted currency isn’t created from a loan. Neither is fiscal spending. On the other side of the spectrum, money is destroyed through taxation (by the state) and repayment of debts and defaults (privately). The monetary hypothesis of income inequality is overly simplistic. It supposes our tax, trade and funding policies are all dictated by monetary policy, which is obviously nonsense. (That or our tax, trade and social spending policies have no effect on inequality. Which is obviously stupid.) It is an easily-digested hypothesis. We like those, particularly when the alternative is reading lots of arcane monetary financial texts.
        licnep 2y ago
        Fiscal spending is still created as a loan though since the government has to sell bonds to finance it, no?
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago

phyzix5761 2y ago

I'm curious which country you reside in where congress does the will of the people because I'm in the US and that's definitely not true here. EDIT: Getting a lot of hate on this comment so allow me to clarify what I meant. In the US we have a Constitutional Republic meaning elected representatives write the laws. People are not voting directly on laws and issues (on a federal level). The parent comment said that "The People decided this" but that's not an accurate statement. Congress decided this regardless of what people actually wanted. In fact, the public was largely divided on whether they wanted a Federal reserve during this time.

9question1 2y ago
You greatly overestimate the quality of the will of the people. Just because you don't like certain outcomes because they are stupid doesn't mean that those outcomes aren't what people wanted. Democratic institutions are a much more accurate way of reflecting the will of the people than most other attempts to measure that, for many reasons including the existence of people who don't respond to surveys but vote.
- greenavocado 2y ago
  Democratic institutions can be subverted with first past the post voting systems and the illusion of choice amongst the most vocal and well funded parties
  - CamperBob2 2y ago
    You know what the technical term for a subverted democracy is? "Democracy." Also known as, "Five people with an IQ of 90 outvoting four people with an IQ of 110," or "One person in Iowa canceling two votes in California."
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      Eh, the (growing) insanity of the electoral college is not a necessary feature of a democracy.

CrimsonCape 2y ago

I don't know enough about the subject to assign "blame", however I assume it would be the Fed's obligation to blame the political whims of Congress for the massive inflation of national debt, wouldn't it? The Fed only creates money in response to Congress, correct?