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"Please note that the Federal Reserve Bank of New York (the “New York Fed”) is not subject to the Freedom of Information Act (“FOIA”) although it complies with
by CrimsonCape 2y ago
"Please note that the Federal Reserve Bank of New York (the “New York Fed”) is not subject to the Freedom of Information Act (“FOIA”) although it complies with the spirit of FOIA when responding to requests of this type."
Isn't it great we have a massive private entity in control of the financial system that pleasantly reminds you that it is not accountable to government laws, and by extension is not accountable to the people ("A government of the people")
- sambaumann 2y agothat same independence is the reason it's not subject to the political whims of whoever is in power at a given time, which is important for the long term health of the economy. "The people" did decide this - as congress gave the fed that independence
- aaomidi 2y agoThe independence could still have stipulations that require FOIA.
- npoc 2y agoSounds good until you discover that its the people who own the fed that are really in power. Everyone should read at least the first few chapters of "The Creature from Jekyll Island" to understand how much money (power) they have.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> until you discover that its the people who own the fed that are really in power This is nonsense. The President and Congress control the Fed. And nobody can knowledgeably claim, today, that its banking members (legally, its shareholders) are more powerful than America’s non-bank financial institutions (e.g. Blackrock or Brookfield). The greatest boon our billionaire class could inherit is a politically-controlled Fed. It’s why one of any autocrat’s first moves is bringing the central bank under their control.
- npoc 2y agoIt's not nonsense. The banking system printed every dollar out of thin air and is charging interest on every single one (giving a cut to government). For decades and decades. I made a post earlier detailing the mechanism they use to extract the wealth from us: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42621878 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42621878
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> banking system printed every dollar out of thin air and is charging interest on every single one (giving a cut to government) This is also nonsense, though less so. Money is created by private banks through lending. The government gets a cut, but that comes through taxation. Money creation is complicated, but it seems like every year someone watches a YouTube video about inflation and deduces, with zero further thought, that it must be a conspiracy.
- npoc 2y ago> Money is created by private banks through lending. Exactly. Every single dollar was created from thin air, as a "loan". > it seems like every year someone watches a YouTube video about inflation and deduces, with zero further thought, that it must be a conspiracy. I've been studying and researching this for years.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> Every single dollar was created from thin air, as a "loan" Not quite. Minted currency isn’t created from a loan. Neither is fiscal spending. On the other side of the spectrum, money is destroyed through taxation (by the state) and repayment of debts and defaults (privately). The monetary hypothesis of income inequality is overly simplistic. It supposes our tax, trade and funding policies are all dictated by monetary policy, which is obviously nonsense. (That or our tax, trade and social spending policies have no effect on inequality. Which is obviously stupid.) It is an easily-digested hypothesis. We like those, particularly when the alternative is reading lots of arcane monetary financial texts.
- phyzix5761 2y agoI'm curious which country you reside in where congress does the will of the people because I'm in the US and that's definitely not true here. EDIT: Getting a lot of hate on this comment so allow me to clarify what I meant. In the US we have a Constitutional Republic meaning elected representatives write the laws. People are not voting directly on laws and issues (on a federal level). The parent comment said that "The People decided this" but that's not an accurate statement. Congress decided this regardless of what people actually wanted. In fact, the public was largely divided on whether they wanted a Federal reserve during this time.
- 9question1 2y agoYou greatly overestimate the quality of the will of the people. Just because you don't like certain outcomes because they are stupid doesn't mean that those outcomes aren't what people wanted. Democratic institutions are a much more accurate way of reflecting the will of the people than most other attempts to measure that, for many reasons including the existence of people who don't respond to surveys but vote.
- greenavocado 2y agoDemocratic institutions can be subverted with first past the post voting systems and the illusion of choice amongst the most vocal and well funded parties
- CamperBob2 2y agoYou know what the technical term for a subverted democracy is? "Democracy." Also known as, "Five people with an IQ of 90 outvoting four people with an IQ of 110," or "One person in Iowa canceling two votes in California."
- llamaimperative 2y agoEh, the (growing) insanity of the electoral college is not a necessary feature of a democracy.
- CrimsonCape 2y agoI don't know enough about the subject to assign "blame", however I assume it would be the Fed's obligation to blame the political whims of Congress for the massive inflation of national debt, wouldn't it? The Fed only creates money in response to Congress, correct?
- tanaros 2y ago> Isn't it great we have a massive private entity in control of the financial system that pleasantly reminds you that it is not accountable to government laws, and by extension is not accountable to the people ("A government of the people") While I appreciate your desire for more accountability in our financial system, I feel this framing can be interpreted as needlessly alarmist. Although the NY Fed is not subject to FOIA —- because, as written, it excludes them —- they are of course subject to US law in general. Congress (and, by extension, the people) may pass laws to regulate them as they wish.
- ActionHank 2y agoAre they privately held or part of the state apparatus though?
- IncreasePosts 2y agoYes.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> Are they privately held or part of the state apparatus though? The Fed is part of the state. Unambiguously. FRB New York is its interface with the private sector, analogous to Fannie Mae or the Tennessee Valley Authority.
- throwaway5752 2y agoWhen I search Google with your question "NY Fed privately held or part of the state apparatus", the first answer is from the NY Fed explaining this: https://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/more-about-what-we-do https://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/more-about-what-we-do The third result is from the St Louis Fed, a non-technical explanation of this https://www.stlouisfed.org/in-plain-english/who-owns-the-federal-reserve-bank https://www.stlouisfed.org/in-plain-english/who-owns-the-fed....
- hiatus 2y ago404 on your St. Louis link.
- rcxdude 2y agoIt's not accountable to government laws which target the government. Congress could pass a law to make such entities (or indeed, all corporations or people) subject to the act, but they've decided not to.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ano-ther 2y agoIt's accountable to Congress: https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm > The Federal Reserve System is not "owned" by anyone. The Federal Reserve was created in 1913 by the Federal Reserve Act to serve as the nation's central bank. The Board of Governors in Washington, D.C., is an agency of the federal government and reports to and is directly accountable to the Congress. > Some observers mistakenly consider the Federal Reserve to be a private entity because the Reserve Banks are organized similarly to private corporations. For instance, each of the 12 Reserve Banks operates within its own particular geographic area, or District, of the United States, and each is separately incorporated and has its own board of directors. Commercial banks that are members of the Federal Reserve System hold stock in their District's Reserve Bank. However, owning Reserve Bank stock is quite different from owning stock in a private company. The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit, and ownership of a certain amount of stock is, by law, a condition of membership in the System. In fact, the Reserve Banks are required by law to transfer net earnings to the U.S. Treasury, after providing for all necessary expenses of the Reserve Banks, legally required dividend payments, and maintaining a limited balance in a surplus fund.
- yesco 2y ago>In fact, the Reserve Banks are required by law to transfer net earnings to the U.S. Treasury, after providing for all necessary expenses of the Reserve Banks, legally required dividend payments, and maintaining a limited balance in a surplus fund. Going purely off memory here, I recall audits implying this may not actually be happening as legally required. It was back when Ron Paul was making a big deal about it though, I can't remember the specifics so I'm bringing it up to invite discussion.
- beambot 2y agoIf it's paying dividends, then it has de facto owners. Also, are there explicit constraints on "limited" balances -- eg fraction of money supply or fraction of GDP?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
- JumpCrisscross 2y agoThe Fed is subject to FOIA [1]. (Within limits [2].) FRB New York is not. If you want to know about monetary policy, that’s FOIA’able. If you want to FOIA the FRB’s trades so you can front run them, that’s not allowed. (Similarly, you can FOIA the Department of Education. You can’t FOIA Sally Mae.) [1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/foia/about_foia.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/foia/about_foia.htm [2] https://www.federalreserve.gov/foia/exemptions.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/foia/exemptions.htm
- dustyventure 2y agoAll agencies have process for handling FOIA requests for issues that are often of a more serious nature than some data possibly arriving fresh enough for front running..
- JumpCrisscross 2y agoCongress literally exempted "information that concerns the supervision of financial institutions" from FOIA [1]. [1] https://www.foia.gov/faq.html https://www.foia.gov/faq.html
- dustyventure 2y agoSo the other 8 types of exemptions must exempt virtually every agency with a meaningful role, but wait, no, they don't. Agencies are expected to judge every request against these exemptions.
- koolba 2y ago> If you want to FOIA the FRB’s trades so you can front run them, that’s not allowed. As if anything that operates at the speed of FOIA would be useful for front running. Maybe if it was for some future action, but even that would be months out of date when you finally get a response.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- throwaway5752 2y agoYes, it is great. The US economy has been the strongest in the world for a century and the USD is a global currency. The system has been incredibly successful, in spite of being periodically run by idiots.
- _DeadFred_ 2y agoThe Judicial branch of the American government is exempt from FOIA. Isn't it great we have a hold 1/3 of our government that thinks they are exempt from us plebes oversight? They don't even hold themselves to the 'although it complies with the spirit of FOIA'. That seems way more concerning than the FED.
- qingcharles 2y agoThis isn't the whole story (from a serial FOIA person myself). The judicial branch is generally excluded from FOIA laws (it shouldn't be), but it is subject to disclosure under the First Amendment and the common law. While that doesn't provide any statutory wins (e.g. must disclose in X days etc), it does allow you to sue if say a court doesn't provide you with records you want. see e.g. Nixon v. Warner Communications, Inc. (1978): recognizing the common law right of access to judicial records but allowed the court to deny access when interests such as privacy, national security, or fair trial rights outweigh the public's interest.
- _DeadFred_ 2y agoI have never seen a successful jailhouse lawyers suit to get FOIA type information from the Judicial system. They are instantly blanket denied under 'FOIA doesn't apply' in order to delay, with the underpinning jailhouse suit timing out before the information request to the Judicial system gets anywhere.
- andrewmutz 2y agoThe fed of course is accountable to laws passed by the government but not laws about the government (since it is not a part of the government). It is a wonderful thing that it is independent from the government, and history has shown, across nations, that political independence of central banks is necessary to control the money supply well. Political leaders are more interested in short-term issues and have repeatedly demonstrated an inability to responsibly manage money supply issues.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- emh68 2y agoMuch like Facebook and Twitter spy on American citizens for the Federal government.
- asdff 2y agoAren't these positions nominated by the president and confirmed by the senate? That is still a government of the people through representation. If you had people confirm each and every position in the federal government the system would collapse.
- Clubber 2y ago>Isn't it great we have a massive private entity in control of the financial system that pleasantly reminds you that it is not accountable to government laws, and by extension is not accountable to the people ("A government of the people") We have two massive private entities in control of the entire government: our two political parties.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 2y agoIt's ok. It has made a half-hearted promise to appear to behave according to the spirit of the law, when doing so provides good public relations and otherwise suits its needs.