3 ms·

Then you need to explain why the Japanese diet, also filled with ultra-processed food, is vastly healthier.

piltdownman 2y ago
Emphasis on vegetables and fibre, niacin and trace mineral rich seafood, and pickled/preserved foods. Also ultra-processed is contextual. They're eating Nattō for breakfast, not McMuffins.
- neom 2y ago
  Friend of mine moved from South Korea to the US and within 6 months had gained a noticeable amount of weight, we discussed it and I said "just gotta watch the calories bud" - confused face - he didn't know how to actually go about calorie counting, he didn't know the calories in 1lb of fat (~3,500), he'd never had to do it in Korea.
  - piltdownman 2y ago
    Its impossible to not get blindsided by HFCS and the general sugar content of American foods if you compare the retail shelves like for like with Europe. In Ireland and other European countries they literally have to 'cover up' the Breakfast Cereals in the 'American Speciality/Import' section due to their misleading nutritional information and/or child targeting. For example, American formulation PopTarts have to legally cover up the claim on the front that they are "a good source of nutrition" and another sticker on the back with a factual nutritional breakdown, as is mandated by most EU members.
- jeffbee 2y ago
  The McMuffin is pretty much the most balanced meal at McDonalds! If you wanted to quibble over it, you could make it with a poached egg white instead of a whole egg, and dress it with olive oil instead of butter, to cut down on the cholesterol without removing too much energy. At ~300 calories a McMuffin is hardly sufficient for many people to get through the morning.
  - piltdownman 2y ago
    Tbf the Bacon McMuffin is a lot better than I thought it would be. The 'healthiest' option other than a pure salad in Irish McDonalds would be the grilled chicken wrap they have - "The BBQ and Bacon Chicken One - Grilled" Roughly the same calories as the McMuffin but half the fat, twice the fibre, and 50% more protein. https://www.mcdonalds.com/ie/en-ie/good-to-know/nutrition-calculator.html https://www.mcdonalds.com/ie/en-ie/good-to-know/nutrition-ca... As for your 300 calories contention - 300 calories of scrambled eggs or steel cut oats would do me fine to get through a morning. 300 calories of McNuggets would not conversely. I'd imagine most of that has to do with satiating fibre, protein and fat therein.
  - BenjiWiebe 2y ago
    I got a bottle of Corto EVOO for Christmas and I love the flavor. Now I'm thinking I might try using it in an egg sandwich for breakfast and see how it is.
neom 2y ago
I would guess it's because the calorie density of Japanese ultra-processed food is vastly different than the US (having eaten both extensively and also former over wight guy who calorie counts daily) - that's actually basically the premise of the article. American ultra-processed food is hugely calorie dense and refined to be palatable.
- whereismyacc 2y ago
  I feel like this gets at the core issue which is food being too palatable and not satiating enough? At least on the obesity / calorie overconsumption front, I think it's just that simple. 'ultra-processed foods' or 'too many carbs' or whatever other explanations people come up for are just lossy proxies for the underlying issue which is 'foods that people tend to eat too much of'.
  - neom 2y ago
    I would tend to agree, I mean, I had to eat a lot of healthy shit as a kid that I did not enjoy at all because my mum is a LSD, from the earth only, 60s era hippie. Healthy but not delicious. The other day I bought some packaged mac and cheese from the grocery store, it was on the big side but I didn't pay much attention, zoned out watching TV and ate the whole thing. After I was thinking, hmm, I don't feel well. Grabbed the mac and cheese box, I'd just consumed near 2k calories in a very manageable meal.
beezlebroxxxxxx 2y ago
Cultural factors for Japan. People eat smaller portions, walk more, and dieting and commenting on someone's weight (a different idea of what is an "acceptable" weight) is also more prevalent. School lunches are also from what I've seen while there considerably more nutritious and fresh.
y7 2y ago
Is the Japanese diet so full of ultra-processed foods? Couldn't quickly find a source for Japan, but this meta-study [1, see Table 1] gives a list of the percentage of UPFs per national diet. It lists Korea (25.1%) and Taiwan (19.5%), which may be relatively close. Anyway, the US comes in at 58%, clearly a big difference. 1: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8538030/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8538030/
otikik 2y ago
"Ultra-processed" is a term denominating a particular kind of food. Not every food that "involves a lot of treatment of the raw ingredients" qualifies as ultra processed. In particular, the end result needs to be high in fats, salts and/or sugars. The production cost also plays a role.
cratermoon 2y ago
> filled with ultra-processed food Bold assertion. Examples? > is vastly healthier Also a bold assertion. Citation?

Emphasis on vegetables and fibre, niacin and trace mineral rich seafood, and pickled/preserved foods. Also ultra-processed is contextual. They're eating Nattō for breakfast, not McMuffins.

neom 2y ago
Friend of mine moved from South Korea to the US and within 6 months had gained a noticeable amount of weight, we discussed it and I said "just gotta watch the calories bud" - confused face - he didn't know how to actually go about calorie counting, he didn't know the calories in 1lb of fat (~3,500), he'd never had to do it in Korea.
- piltdownman 2y ago
  Its impossible to not get blindsided by HFCS and the general sugar content of American foods if you compare the retail shelves like for like with Europe. In Ireland and other European countries they literally have to 'cover up' the Breakfast Cereals in the 'American Speciality/Import' section due to their misleading nutritional information and/or child targeting. For example, American formulation PopTarts have to legally cover up the claim on the front that they are "a good source of nutrition" and another sticker on the back with a factual nutritional breakdown, as is mandated by most EU members.
jeffbee 2y ago
The McMuffin is pretty much the most balanced meal at McDonalds! If you wanted to quibble over it, you could make it with a poached egg white instead of a whole egg, and dress it with olive oil instead of butter, to cut down on the cholesterol without removing too much energy. At ~300 calories a McMuffin is hardly sufficient for many people to get through the morning.
- piltdownman 2y ago
  Tbf the Bacon McMuffin is a lot better than I thought it would be. The 'healthiest' option other than a pure salad in Irish McDonalds would be the grilled chicken wrap they have - "The BBQ and Bacon Chicken One - Grilled" Roughly the same calories as the McMuffin but half the fat, twice the fibre, and 50% more protein. https://www.mcdonalds.com/ie/en-ie/good-to-know/nutrition-calculator.html https://www.mcdonalds.com/ie/en-ie/good-to-know/nutrition-ca... As for your 300 calories contention - 300 calories of scrambled eggs or steel cut oats would do me fine to get through a morning. 300 calories of McNuggets would not conversely. I'd imagine most of that has to do with satiating fibre, protein and fat therein.
- BenjiWiebe 2y ago
  I got a bottle of Corto EVOO for Christmas and I love the flavor. Now I'm thinking I might try using it in an egg sandwich for breakfast and see how it is.

neom 2y ago

I would guess it's because the calorie density of Japanese ultra-processed food is vastly different than the US (having eaten both extensively and also former over wight guy who calorie counts daily) - that's actually basically the premise of the article. American ultra-processed food is hugely calorie dense and refined to be palatable.

whereismyacc 2y ago
I feel like this gets at the core issue which is food being too palatable and not satiating enough? At least on the obesity / calorie overconsumption front, I think it's just that simple. 'ultra-processed foods' or 'too many carbs' or whatever other explanations people come up for are just lossy proxies for the underlying issue which is 'foods that people tend to eat too much of'.
- neom 2y ago
  I would tend to agree, I mean, I had to eat a lot of healthy shit as a kid that I did not enjoy at all because my mum is a LSD, from the earth only, 60s era hippie. Healthy but not delicious. The other day I bought some packaged mac and cheese from the grocery store, it was on the big side but I didn't pay much attention, zoned out watching TV and ate the whole thing. After I was thinking, hmm, I don't feel well. Grabbed the mac and cheese box, I'd just consumed near 2k calories in a very manageable meal.

beezlebroxxxxxx 2y ago

Cultural factors for Japan. People eat smaller portions, walk more, and dieting and commenting on someone's weight (a different idea of what is an "acceptable" weight) is also more prevalent. School lunches are also from what I've seen while there considerably more nutritious and fresh.

y7 2y ago

Is the Japanese diet so full of ultra-processed foods? Couldn't quickly find a source for Japan, but this meta-study [1, see Table 1] gives a list of the percentage of UPFs per national diet. It lists Korea (25.1%) and Taiwan (19.5%), which may be relatively close. Anyway, the US comes in at 58%, clearly a big difference. 1: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8538030/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8538030/

otikik 2y ago

"Ultra-processed" is a term denominating a particular kind of food. Not every food that "involves a lot of treatment of the raw ingredients" qualifies as ultra processed. In particular, the end result needs to be high in fats, salts and/or sugars. The production cost also plays a role.

cratermoon 2y ago

> filled with ultra-processed food Bold assertion. Examples? > is vastly healthier Also a bold assertion. Citation?