Oh definitely - I'm not an absolutist. I just want to have the least amount of contact with those aspects of the Javascript ecosystem that take me further away

Oh definitely - I'm not an absolutist. I just want to have the least amount of contact with those aspects of the Javascript ecosystem that take me further away from HTML over HTTP and progressive enhancement. And I fully accept that "web apps" probably need complex frameworks. I just think most people aren't really building web apps - they are building web sites.