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I mean electric cars, solar panels, and rockets so we don't have to rely on Russia to get to and from space ain't nothin'. Then there's that torch thing. I can

I mean electric cars, solar panels, and rockets so we don't have to rely on Russia to get to and from space ain't nothin'. Then there's that torch thing. I can take or leave the other two. Netscape was pretty cool.

pavlov 2y ago
As a customer I find a stark difference between Musk and Jobs. I have a Tesla and I was also a customer of Jobs’s Apple since 1999. The big difference is that Jobs never lied to me. Sure, he was an enthusiastic salesman, but the products actually did what was promised. (I even bought Mac OS X 10.0 in a retail box. It was rough but it showed that their new OS is delivering.) Apple products fit my purposes and I kept coming back to buy more. Musk sold me a very expensive feature that still does nothing, six years later. He knew that he was lying about the capabilities of the cars, but still took my $7,500 for a feature that was worth zero. I’m never buying anything from him again. The same approach of bald-faced lies is evident in most of the tech industry today. Cryptocurrency products don’t serve any purpose but enriching people like Andreessen. AI is almost as bad. And now these titans of misinformation are barging into global politics. They don’t care about empowering people and creativity like Jobs did, they just want more personal power.
- euroderf 2y ago
  It's not "lies" it's "reality distortion". So much more pleasant!
- Clubber 2y ago
  >Musk sold me a very expensive feature that still does nothing, six years later. He knew that he was lying about the capabilities of the cars, but still took my $7,500 for a feature that was worth zero. I’m never buying anything from him again. I assume you're talking about auto-pilot? >The same approach of bald-faced lies is evident in most of the tech industry today. Cryptocurrency products don’t serve any purpose but enriching people like Andreessen. AI is almost as bad. And now these titans of misinformation are barging into global politics. They don’t care about empowering people and creativity like Jobs did, they just want more personal power. Yes, the tech industry went from promising Star Trek like future to Demolition Man meets 1984 where Taco Bell owns everything and spies on you. It's not great. Stallman was right, but he got conveniently pushed out of the conversation.
  - browningstreet 2y ago
    > I assume you're talking about auto-pilot? Full Self Driving. Tesla doesn't charge extra for Autopilot.
- yapyap 2y ago
  Jobs lied all the time, only difference was that he had the luck of not being busted cause he could realize the lies before the due date. Not saying this makes him worse than Elon Musk though, Elon is obviously much worse. You can see this in just how he interacts politically and how he used his social media platform to influence elections.
- 9rx 2y ago
  > The big difference is that Jobs never lied to me. I'm sure he will get around to providing FaceTime as an open industry standard any day now...
  - kergonath 2y ago
    That is not because of him. They ran into patents problems and lost a lawsuit about this. They did contribute a couple of industry standards, including zeroconf/bonjour and OpenCL. I haven’t seen anything or anybody saying that the FaceTime thing was a deception.
    - 9rx 2y ago
      Supposedly he announced it off the cuff, without consulting anyone else as to the viability, not even notifying the FaceTime team beforehand. You can get into a semantic argument with yourself about whether that is actually a lie, but no matter what you conclude, that seems to be the same kind of "lie" that Musk makes.
      - me-vs-cat 2y ago
        > [an off the cuff promise] seems to be the same kind of "lie" [as charging $7,500 for future self-driving] No, it doesn't, and I cannot understand how they could seem so similar to you.
        9rx 2y ago
        I assume the intent here is for it to be a question with a forgotten question mark? Otherwise, the comment devolves into ad hominem without any technical exploration, and there is no conceivable expiation for that. Unfortunately, I am not entirely sure how to grok the question. What I am able to gather is that Musk sold a unrealized future promise on the basis of hopeful optimism as its own line item for $7,500, while Jobs sold an unrealized future promise on the basis of hopeful optimism as part of a bundle in the ballpark around $1,000, with some variation depending on the specific bundle purchased. Is the contention around the price magnitude? Would Musk be less of a "liar" if it sold for $100 instead of $7,500? Is it being sold independently instead of as part of a bundle what is in dispute? Would Musk be less of a "liar" if that $7,500 included other features available at the time of sale? Perhaps you can elaborate?

pavlov 2y ago

As a customer I find a stark difference between Musk and Jobs. I have a Tesla and I was also a customer of Jobs’s Apple since 1999. The big difference is that Jobs never lied to me. Sure, he was an enthusiastic salesman, but the products actually did what was promised. (I even bought Mac OS X 10.0 in a retail box. It was rough but it showed that their new OS is delivering.) Apple products fit my purposes and I kept coming back to buy more. Musk sold me a very expensive feature that still does nothing, six years later. He knew that he was lying about the capabilities of the cars, but still took my $7,500 for a feature that was worth zero. I’m never buying anything from him again. The same approach of bald-faced lies is evident in most of the tech industry today. Cryptocurrency products don’t serve any purpose but enriching people like Andreessen. AI is almost as bad. And now these titans of misinformation are barging into global politics. They don’t care about empowering people and creativity like Jobs did, they just want more personal power.

euroderf 2y ago
It's not "lies" it's "reality distortion". So much more pleasant!
Clubber 2y ago
>Musk sold me a very expensive feature that still does nothing, six years later. He knew that he was lying about the capabilities of the cars, but still took my $7,500 for a feature that was worth zero. I’m never buying anything from him again. I assume you're talking about auto-pilot? >The same approach of bald-faced lies is evident in most of the tech industry today. Cryptocurrency products don’t serve any purpose but enriching people like Andreessen. AI is almost as bad. And now these titans of misinformation are barging into global politics. They don’t care about empowering people and creativity like Jobs did, they just want more personal power. Yes, the tech industry went from promising Star Trek like future to Demolition Man meets 1984 where Taco Bell owns everything and spies on you. It's not great. Stallman was right, but he got conveniently pushed out of the conversation.
- browningstreet 2y ago
  > I assume you're talking about auto-pilot? Full Self Driving. Tesla doesn't charge extra for Autopilot.
yapyap 2y ago
Jobs lied all the time, only difference was that he had the luck of not being busted cause he could realize the lies before the due date. Not saying this makes him worse than Elon Musk though, Elon is obviously much worse. You can see this in just how he interacts politically and how he used his social media platform to influence elections.
9rx 2y ago
> The big difference is that Jobs never lied to me. I'm sure he will get around to providing FaceTime as an open industry standard any day now...
- kergonath 2y ago
  That is not because of him. They ran into patents problems and lost a lawsuit about this. They did contribute a couple of industry standards, including zeroconf/bonjour and OpenCL. I haven’t seen anything or anybody saying that the FaceTime thing was a deception.
  - 9rx 2y ago
    Supposedly he announced it off the cuff, without consulting anyone else as to the viability, not even notifying the FaceTime team beforehand. You can get into a semantic argument with yourself about whether that is actually a lie, but no matter what you conclude, that seems to be the same kind of "lie" that Musk makes.
    - me-vs-cat 2y ago
      > [an off the cuff promise] seems to be the same kind of "lie" [as charging $7,500 for future self-driving] No, it doesn't, and I cannot understand how they could seem so similar to you.
      - 9rx 2y ago
        I assume the intent here is for it to be a question with a forgotten question mark? Otherwise, the comment devolves into ad hominem without any technical exploration, and there is no conceivable expiation for that. Unfortunately, I am not entirely sure how to grok the question. What I am able to gather is that Musk sold a unrealized future promise on the basis of hopeful optimism as its own line item for $7,500, while Jobs sold an unrealized future promise on the basis of hopeful optimism as part of a bundle in the ballpark around $1,000, with some variation depending on the specific bundle purchased. Is the contention around the price magnitude? Would Musk be less of a "liar" if it sold for $100 instead of $7,500? Is it being sold independently instead of as part of a bundle what is in dispute? Would Musk be less of a "liar" if that $7,500 included other features available at the time of sale? Perhaps you can elaborate?