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Even if there were a handful of fraudulent votes occurring with voting by mail (which I have yet to see a shred of evidence for), it allows many more people who

Even if there were a handful of fraudulent votes occurring with voting by mail (which I have yet to see a shred of evidence for), it allows many more people who can’t afford transportation, who work multiple jobs, or who otherwise can’t get to a polling place to vote, when they otherwise couldn’t. This is especially important in places like the south, where Republican-controlled governments have conducted widespread closures of polling places, especially in areas that historically vote Democratic. Also, could you please explain, in detail, how voting by mail is “the most open to abuse”?

AnimalMuppet 2y ago
Between kids away at school, a friend who stayed with us for a time, and my invalid mother, my wife and I could have mail-in voted for six people last cycle. I mean, we literally had their ballots sitting on our kitchen counter. All we had to do was forge their signatures (which we didn't do). Having to show an ID to a poll worker to get a ballot is a higher bar than signing something. I mean, look, I get the arguments about mobility. My mother was not going to drive to a polling place. But it is also true that mail-in voting is more open to abuse and fraud by those who are inclined to do so.
- archagon 2y ago
  All it takes is one of your kids complaining to land you in prison (after the forged signature is verified). Seems like a really poor value proposition if you’re voting differently from your kids/friend/etc.
- angoragoats 2y ago
  > Having to show an ID to a poll worker to get a ballot is a higher bar than signing something. I agree, but it's also true that 1) strict ID requirements inconvenience poor and other disadvantaged people the most, and 2) there have been multiple studies on the effectiveness of voter ID laws which have found them to have little impact on voter fraud. Additionally, if my data is correct, only 11 US states have strict voter ID requirements. This means that for a majority of Americans, an apples to apples comparison would be "signing a ballot" vs. "giving a poll worker your name/address." Of those two options, I would argue that signing something is actually a higher bar than giving your name to a poll worker, because it could later be more reliably verified to be fraud, if necessary. So, I don't accept that mail-in ballots are "the most open to abuse."
  - gadders 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - angoragoats 2y ago
      I’m sorry you don’t like it, but it’s true. Care to respond to anything else in my post?
      - gadders 2y ago
        [flagged]
        angoragoats 2y ago
        I'm done having a conversation with someone whose opinions about a minor point in my comment are completely divorced from reality, so don't bother replying. But if you'd like to read about this topic from people who have actually studied and analyzed this, please feel free: https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/688343?journalCode=jop https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/688343?jou... https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/716282 https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/716282 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/21565503.2020.1773280 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/21565503.2020.1... https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jels.12283 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jels.12283 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/political-science-research-and-methods/article/abs/durable-differential-deterrent-effects-of-strict-photo-identification-laws/E97B3308FDA75972A6374EDCD26333BF https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/political-science-re...
        gadders 2y ago
        If they don't want to participate in democracy, that's on them. It's not hard to get ID. Instead lobbying to make the voting process less secure, why not help people get ID instead?

AnimalMuppet 2y ago

Between kids away at school, a friend who stayed with us for a time, and my invalid mother, my wife and I could have mail-in voted for six people last cycle. I mean, we literally had their ballots sitting on our kitchen counter. All we had to do was forge their signatures (which we didn't do). Having to show an ID to a poll worker to get a ballot is a higher bar than signing something. I mean, look, I get the arguments about mobility. My mother was not going to drive to a polling place. But it is also true that mail-in voting is more open to abuse and fraud by those who are inclined to do so.

archagon 2y ago
All it takes is one of your kids complaining to land you in prison (after the forged signature is verified). Seems like a really poor value proposition if you’re voting differently from your kids/friend/etc.
angoragoats 2y ago
> Having to show an ID to a poll worker to get a ballot is a higher bar than signing something. I agree, but it's also true that 1) strict ID requirements inconvenience poor and other disadvantaged people the most, and 2) there have been multiple studies on the effectiveness of voter ID laws which have found them to have little impact on voter fraud. Additionally, if my data is correct, only 11 US states have strict voter ID requirements. This means that for a majority of Americans, an apples to apples comparison would be "signing a ballot" vs. "giving a poll worker your name/address." Of those two options, I would argue that signing something is actually a higher bar than giving your name to a poll worker, because it could later be more reliably verified to be fraud, if necessary. So, I don't accept that mail-in ballots are "the most open to abuse."
- gadders 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - angoragoats 2y ago
    I’m sorry you don’t like it, but it’s true. Care to respond to anything else in my post?
    - gadders 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - angoragoats 2y ago
        I'm done having a conversation with someone whose opinions about a minor point in my comment are completely divorced from reality, so don't bother replying. But if you'd like to read about this topic from people who have actually studied and analyzed this, please feel free: https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/688343?journalCode=jop https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/688343?jou... https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/716282 https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/716282 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/21565503.2020.1773280 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/21565503.2020.1... https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jels.12283 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jels.12283 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/political-science-research-and-methods/article/abs/durable-differential-deterrent-effects-of-strict-photo-identification-laws/E97B3308FDA75972A6374EDCD26333BF https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/political-science-re...
        gadders 2y ago
        If they don't want to participate in democracy, that's on them. It's not hard to get ID. Instead lobbying to make the voting process less secure, why not help people get ID instead?