6 ms·

No evidence yet. I guess we might find out more in the next 4 years when it is investigated properly. If you want to put elections beyond doubt and make everyo

No evidence yet. I guess we might find out more in the next 4 years when it is investigated properly. If you want to put elections beyond doubt and make everyone accept the result you should have voter ID and paper ballots. The public holiday idea is probably not a bad one.

valar_m 2y ago
What do you mean? There is no evidence at all that Trump won by voter fraud.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  I believe the claim was, with Trump in power there will now be a proper investigation of voter fraud in the 2020 election. I have doubts. First, as someone else pointed out, there already has been lots of investigation in Republican-run states, and they turned up very little. Second, Trump seems to have the ego-driven need to deny that he lost. He seems to have the tendency to hire people who tell him what he wants to hear, and to fire those that don't. That's not likely to drive an impartial investigation.
palmfacehn 2y ago
If evidence did exist, would CNN rush to report it? Would they bury it until they were forced to report on it? If they did report on it, would they minimize it with spin?
sixstringtheory 2y ago
Investigate anything hard enough and it’ll tell you whatever you want to hear. Hard to imagine any result to that investigation that would be universally accepted. Why not apply a little bit of technology to the problem so we can verify our vote was counted, and that only legitimate votes were counted?
- gadders 2y ago
  The obligatory XKCD: https://xkcd.com/2030/ https://xkcd.com/2030/
  - sixstringtheory 2y ago
    Read the alt text. I can’t grab it on mobile, but it basically boils down to: never say never, and in service of that future possibility, we actually should explore it until such time that conflicts of interest naturally resolve. If your tech friend says everything sucks in tech, then why should their judgement even be taken at face value? They’re part of the problem!
    - gadders 2y ago
      Grabbed it - not sure it disagrees with either of us. "There are lots of very smart people doing fascinating work on cryptographic voting protocols. We should be funding and encouraging them, and doing all our elections with paper ballots until everyone currently working in that field has retired."
thrance 2y ago
It was already investigated "properly"... Republicans states have been going crazy over it since at least 2016. If there was any evidence of it would have been found by now, now it's just another red herring. Agreed on your second paragraph.
- gadders 2y ago
  I think it is hard for political parties to investigate anything. You would need law enforcement for that. It is also my understanding that most voter fraud challenges in 2016 were dismissed due to lack of standing, before the facts were considered.
  - angoragoats 2y ago
    No one said anything about political parties doing the investigation.
  - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
    Some were dismissed for lack of standing. (I, a resident of state X, can't sue about state Y's voting just because I think there's something wrong there.) Some were dismissed for failure to state a legally tryable claim, or for lack of evidence. ("I think there's something going on there" is not a legally valid ground for a lawsuit. You have to have something that at least looks like evidence in order to get in the door.)
archagon 2y ago
Yeah, let’s trust a deeply narcissistic felon and insurrectionist — who pressured at least one Secretary of State to “find him votes”[1] and even prepared a slate of false electors[2] to subvert the Electoral College — to investigate his own lost election. That will surely be fair and just! [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Raffensperger_phone_call https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Raffensperger_... [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot

valar_m 2y ago

What do you mean? There is no evidence at all that Trump won by voter fraud.

AnimalMuppet 2y ago
I believe the claim was, with Trump in power there will now be a proper investigation of voter fraud in the 2020 election. I have doubts. First, as someone else pointed out, there already has been lots of investigation in Republican-run states, and they turned up very little. Second, Trump seems to have the ego-driven need to deny that he lost. He seems to have the tendency to hire people who tell him what he wants to hear, and to fire those that don't. That's not likely to drive an impartial investigation.

palmfacehn 2y ago

If evidence did exist, would CNN rush to report it? Would they bury it until they were forced to report on it? If they did report on it, would they minimize it with spin?

sixstringtheory 2y ago

Investigate anything hard enough and it’ll tell you whatever you want to hear. Hard to imagine any result to that investigation that would be universally accepted. Why not apply a little bit of technology to the problem so we can verify our vote was counted, and that only legitimate votes were counted?

gadders 2y ago
The obligatory XKCD: https://xkcd.com/2030/ https://xkcd.com/2030/
- sixstringtheory 2y ago
  Read the alt text. I can’t grab it on mobile, but it basically boils down to: never say never, and in service of that future possibility, we actually should explore it until such time that conflicts of interest naturally resolve. If your tech friend says everything sucks in tech, then why should their judgement even be taken at face value? They’re part of the problem!
  - gadders 2y ago
    Grabbed it - not sure it disagrees with either of us. "There are lots of very smart people doing fascinating work on cryptographic voting protocols. We should be funding and encouraging them, and doing all our elections with paper ballots until everyone currently working in that field has retired."

thrance 2y ago

It was already investigated "properly"... Republicans states have been going crazy over it since at least 2016. If there was any evidence of it would have been found by now, now it's just another red herring. Agreed on your second paragraph.

gadders 2y ago
I think it is hard for political parties to investigate anything. You would need law enforcement for that. It is also my understanding that most voter fraud challenges in 2016 were dismissed due to lack of standing, before the facts were considered.
- angoragoats 2y ago
  No one said anything about political parties doing the investigation.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  Some were dismissed for lack of standing. (I, a resident of state X, can't sue about state Y's voting just because I think there's something wrong there.) Some were dismissed for failure to state a legally tryable claim, or for lack of evidence. ("I think there's something going on there" is not a legally valid ground for a lawsuit. You have to have something that at least looks like evidence in order to get in the door.)

archagon 2y ago

Yeah, let’s trust a deeply narcissistic felon and insurrectionist — who pressured at least one Secretary of State to “find him votes”[1] and even prepared a slate of false electors[2] to subvert the Electoral College — to investigate his own lost election. That will surely be fair and just! [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Raffensperger_phone_call https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Raffensperger_... [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot