5 ms·

I think hating bad/incorrect is key to being good/correct: hating bad spelling is key to being motivated enough to learn to spell correctly. Learning to be ind

by critic 18y ago

I think hating bad/incorrect is key to being good/correct: hating bad spelling is key to being motivated enough to learn to spell correctly. Learning to be indifferent to failure and mediocrity is not the right goal IMO.

ahoyhere 18y ago
I firmly disagree. If you hate bad/incorrect, then you will have to hate yourself most of the time, because you are a fallible human just like everyone else. And hate is not a very good motivator. If you hate yourself when you are wrong, it is much easier to just not seek the truth in the first place. Accepting that mistakes are a huge part of life, and striving to get better every time, is a much better approach.
- critic 18y ago
  > If you hate bad/incorrect, then you will have to hate yourself most of the time Look at it this way (Depending on your background, you may need to read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility to understand the nature of my argument): There is a utilty to you of person P doing behavior B. Let's call this utility function U(P, B) You strive to maximize U, i.e. low U - hate; high U - love. And when U is flat you are indifferent. If you are making hiring/firing decisions, you get to maximize U in the first argument, so your hate/love of good/bad behaviors can translates into preferences of persons (i.e. hires) However, when looking at your own actions, you don't get to maximize U in the first argument, and so your hate/love of bad/good does not translate into self-loathing. "Self" is just not part of the equation there. See how it's much clearer when you think of it mathematically? > Accepting that mistakes are a huge part of life, > and striving to get better every time, > is a much better approach. If you are indifferent about failures (your utility function is flat), where would the striving come from?
  - ahoyhere 18y ago
    "Acting in anger is like throwing hot coals. First, you get burned." But beyond that, you're sadly mistaken if you believe that humans actually maximize utility and follow any kind of logical equation in their lives. I suggest you read Stumbling onto Happiness, Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me), The Presentation of the Self in Everyday Life, and of course Predictably Irrational. All chock-full of good, meaty studies that show what irrational creatures we are.
    - critic 18y ago
      > But beyond that, you're sadly mistaken if you believe that humans actually maximize utility and follow any kind of logical equation in their lives. This objection is of the kind "you can't use scientific models to describe our world": Planets are not points (don't use Newton's equations). Temperature begins to exist only after you wait an infinite amount of time for the system to reach an equilibrium. etc. The maximization of utility may be an approximation, but it's definitely a more helpful mental model of human preferences than none at all, and claiming that somehow hating failures and loving success should translate into self-loathing because all humans are fallible. Anyhow, I'm working on not arguing this year, so I'll leave you here. Sorry I started this branch of the discussion.
      - ahoyhere 18y ago
        I'm guessing that you know exactly how full of crap you are and are just waiting to see how many people eat it up like a delicious ham sandwich. You know very well that by referring to actual studies of human nature I am not, in any way, implying or suggesting that "you can't use scientific models to describe our world." It's not funny, and it's not clever.

by critic 18y ago

ahoyhere 18y ago

I firmly disagree. If you hate bad/incorrect, then you will have to hate yourself most of the time, because you are a fallible human just like everyone else. And hate is not a very good motivator. If you hate yourself when you are wrong, it is much easier to just not seek the truth in the first place. Accepting that mistakes are a huge part of life, and striving to get better every time, is a much better approach.

critic 18y ago
> If you hate bad/incorrect, then you will have to hate yourself most of the time Look at it this way (Depending on your background, you may need to read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility to understand the nature of my argument): There is a utilty to you of person P doing behavior B. Let's call this utility function U(P, B) You strive to maximize U, i.e. low U - hate; high U - love. And when U is flat you are indifferent. If you are making hiring/firing decisions, you get to maximize U in the first argument, so your hate/love of good/bad behaviors can translates into preferences of persons (i.e. hires) However, when looking at your own actions, you don't get to maximize U in the first argument, and so your hate/love of bad/good does not translate into self-loathing. "Self" is just not part of the equation there. See how it's much clearer when you think of it mathematically? > Accepting that mistakes are a huge part of life, > and striving to get better every time, > is a much better approach. If you are indifferent about failures (your utility function is flat), where would the striving come from?
- ahoyhere 18y ago
  "Acting in anger is like throwing hot coals. First, you get burned." But beyond that, you're sadly mistaken if you believe that humans actually maximize utility and follow any kind of logical equation in their lives. I suggest you read Stumbling onto Happiness, Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me), The Presentation of the Self in Everyday Life, and of course Predictably Irrational. All chock-full of good, meaty studies that show what irrational creatures we are.
  - critic 18y ago
    > But beyond that, you're sadly mistaken if you believe that humans actually maximize utility and follow any kind of logical equation in their lives. This objection is of the kind "you can't use scientific models to describe our world": Planets are not points (don't use Newton's equations). Temperature begins to exist only after you wait an infinite amount of time for the system to reach an equilibrium. etc. The maximization of utility may be an approximation, but it's definitely a more helpful mental model of human preferences than none at all, and claiming that somehow hating failures and loving success should translate into self-loathing because all humans are fallible. Anyhow, I'm working on not arguing this year, so I'll leave you here. Sorry I started this branch of the discussion.
    - ahoyhere 18y ago
      I'm guessing that you know exactly how full of crap you are and are just waiting to see how many people eat it up like a delicious ham sandwich. You know very well that by referring to actual studies of human nature I am not, in any way, implying or suggesting that "you can't use scientific models to describe our world." It's not funny, and it's not clever.