4 ms·

> It’s 3 extrapolated frames not interpolated. Do you have a source for this? Doesn't sound like a very good idea. Nor do I think there's additional latency mi

> It’s 3 extrapolated frames not interpolated. Do you have a source for this? Doesn't sound like a very good idea. Nor do I think there's additional latency mind you, but not because it's not interpolation.

dagmx 2y ago
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss4-multi-frame-generation-ai-innovations/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss4-multi-frame-...
- perching_aix 2y ago
  Could you please point out where on that page does it say anything about "extrapolation"? Searched for the (beginning of the) word directly and even gave all the text a skim, didn't catch anything of the sort.
  - satvikpendem 2y ago
    The literal word doesn't have to be there in order to imply that it were extrapolation instead of interpolation. By your logic, there is no implication of interpolation versus extrapolation either. Nvidia simply won't use such terms, I believe.
    - perching_aix 2y ago
      They did specify [0] that it was intermediate frames they were generating back when the 1st version frame generation was announced with DLSS 3, which does translate to interpolation. It's only natural to assume MFG is the same, just with more than a single intermediate frame being generated. It is also just plain unsound to think that it'd not be interpolation - extrapolating frames into the future means inevitably that future not coming to be, and there being serious artifacts every couple frames. This is just nonsense. I checked through (the autogenerated subtitles of) the entire keynote as well, zero mentions there either. I did catch Linus from Linus Tech Tips saying "extrapolation" in his coverage [1], but that was clearly meant colloquially. Maybe that's where OP was coming from? I will give you that they seem to intentionally avoid the word interpolation, and it is reasonable to think then that they'd avoid the word extrapolation too. But then, that's why I asked the person above. If they can point out where on that page I should look for a paragraph that supports what they were saying, not with a literal mention of the word but otherwise, it would be good to know. [0] https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss3-ai-powered-neural-graphics-innovations/#:~:text=to%20create%20intermediate%20frames https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss3-ai-powered-n... [1] https://youtu.be/3a8dScJg6O0?t=345 https://youtu.be/3a8dScJg6O0?t=345
      - yakaccount4 2y ago
        MFG is almost certainly still interpolation. I'm guessing Reflex 2 is more akin to extrapolation, and might be getting the media to cross wires?
        perching_aix 2y ago
        Reflex 2 seems to be asynchronous projection [0]. How the two techs come together when both are enabled, I'm not quite sure how to fit together in my head, but clearly it works fine at least. Hopefully there will be more coverage about these later. [0] https://youtu.be/7qzJHUbAkZw?t=316 https://youtu.be/7qzJHUbAkZw?t=316
vel0city 2y ago
Interpolation means you have frame 1 and frame 2, now compute the interstitial steps between these two. Extrapolation means you have frame 1, and sometime in the future you'll get a frame 2. But until then, take the training data and the current frame and "guess" what the next few frames will be. Interpolation requires you to have the final state between the added frames, extrapolation means you don't yet know what the final state will be but you'll keep drawing until you get there. You shouldn't get additional latency from generating, assuming it's not slowing down the traditional render generation pipeline.
- perching_aix 2y ago
  I understand this - doesn't address anything of what I said.
- mczarnek 2y ago
  What if you used the last two frames instead of just one.. then it's pretty much same thing
gruez 2y ago
https://www.nvidia.com/content/dam/en-zz/Solutions/geforce/news/reflex-2-even-lower-latency-gameplay-with-frame-warp/nvidia-reflex-2-frame-warp-explained.jpg https://www.nvidia.com/content/dam/en-zz/Solutions/geforce/n...
- perching_aix 2y ago
  This is not even about the same technology the person I replied to was talking about in the quoted section (this is Reflex 2, not MFG).
ryao 2y ago
Jensen Huang said during his keynote that you get 3 AI generated frames when rendering a native frame.
- perching_aix 2y ago
  This doesn't imply "extrapolation" instead of interpolation.
  - ryao 2y ago
    That does imply extrapolation since interpolation requires 2 frames and they are only using 1.
    - mczarnek 2y ago
      It does imply extrapolation but I'm hearing doesn't actually provide it and they actually interpolate. Which fits with them having same latency.. have to wait for that next frame.

dagmx 2y ago

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss4-multi-frame-generation-ai-innovations/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss4-multi-frame-...

perching_aix 2y ago
Could you please point out where on that page does it say anything about "extrapolation"? Searched for the (beginning of the) word directly and even gave all the text a skim, didn't catch anything of the sort.
- satvikpendem 2y ago
  The literal word doesn't have to be there in order to imply that it were extrapolation instead of interpolation. By your logic, there is no implication of interpolation versus extrapolation either. Nvidia simply won't use such terms, I believe.
  - perching_aix 2y ago
    They did specify [0] that it was intermediate frames they were generating back when the 1st version frame generation was announced with DLSS 3, which does translate to interpolation. It's only natural to assume MFG is the same, just with more than a single intermediate frame being generated. It is also just plain unsound to think that it'd not be interpolation - extrapolating frames into the future means inevitably that future not coming to be, and there being serious artifacts every couple frames. This is just nonsense. I checked through (the autogenerated subtitles of) the entire keynote as well, zero mentions there either. I did catch Linus from Linus Tech Tips saying "extrapolation" in his coverage [1], but that was clearly meant colloquially. Maybe that's where OP was coming from? I will give you that they seem to intentionally avoid the word interpolation, and it is reasonable to think then that they'd avoid the word extrapolation too. But then, that's why I asked the person above. If they can point out where on that page I should look for a paragraph that supports what they were saying, not with a literal mention of the word but otherwise, it would be good to know. [0] https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss3-ai-powered-neural-graphics-innovations/#:~:text=to%20create%20intermediate%20frames https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss3-ai-powered-n... [1] https://youtu.be/3a8dScJg6O0?t=345 https://youtu.be/3a8dScJg6O0?t=345
    - yakaccount4 2y ago
      MFG is almost certainly still interpolation. I'm guessing Reflex 2 is more akin to extrapolation, and might be getting the media to cross wires?
      - perching_aix 2y ago
        Reflex 2 seems to be asynchronous projection [0]. How the two techs come together when both are enabled, I'm not quite sure how to fit together in my head, but clearly it works fine at least. Hopefully there will be more coverage about these later. [0] https://youtu.be/7qzJHUbAkZw?t=316 https://youtu.be/7qzJHUbAkZw?t=316

vel0city 2y ago

Interpolation means you have frame 1 and frame 2, now compute the interstitial steps between these two. Extrapolation means you have frame 1, and sometime in the future you'll get a frame 2. But until then, take the training data and the current frame and "guess" what the next few frames will be. Interpolation requires you to have the final state between the added frames, extrapolation means you don't yet know what the final state will be but you'll keep drawing until you get there. You shouldn't get additional latency from generating, assuming it's not slowing down the traditional render generation pipeline.

perching_aix 2y ago
I understand this - doesn't address anything of what I said.
mczarnek 2y ago
What if you used the last two frames instead of just one.. then it's pretty much same thing

gruez 2y ago

https://www.nvidia.com/content/dam/en-zz/Solutions/geforce/news/reflex-2-even-lower-latency-gameplay-with-frame-warp/nvidia-reflex-2-frame-warp-explained.jpg https://www.nvidia.com/content/dam/en-zz/Solutions/geforce/n...

perching_aix 2y ago
This is not even about the same technology the person I replied to was talking about in the quoted section (this is Reflex 2, not MFG).

ryao 2y ago

Jensen Huang said during his keynote that you get 3 AI generated frames when rendering a native frame.

perching_aix 2y ago
This doesn't imply "extrapolation" instead of interpolation.
- ryao 2y ago
  That does imply extrapolation since interpolation requires 2 frames and they are only using 1.
  - mczarnek 2y ago
    It does imply extrapolation but I'm hearing doesn't actually provide it and they actually interpolate. Which fits with them having same latency.. have to wait for that next frame.