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It has been highly successful in London. Less congestion, better air quality, incentivises the most disruptive things like heavy good vehicles to deliver out of

It has been highly successful in London. Less congestion, better air quality, incentivises the most disruptive things like heavy good vehicles to deliver out of rush hour reducing impact on other traffic etc.

deanc 2y ago
My ancedotal experience of driving around London once or twice a year for the last ten years is there hasn't been a huge change. I don't trust TFL data on this as the authorities are incentivised to report figures to support the gathering of the additional revenue stream. At least this study [1] suggests a mild improvement but interestingly replacing one pollutant with another (due to diesel exemptions). In my opinion, we should primary focus on improving the standards of public transport. Safety, cleanliness, punctuality and price. I'm a car owner living 15mins drive from downtown of a European capital city, and I refuse to drive near the city because the parking is expensive, there's always roadworks but primarily the public transport is excellent and comfortable. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0166046220302581 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01660...
- Symbiote 2y ago
  Why would there be a change in London within the last 10 years? Congestion charging was introduced in 2003.
  - deanc 2y ago
    ULEZ was introduced for a start.
    - Symbiote 2y ago
      That affects pollution, but very few vehicles were not compliant so it would have minimal effect on congestion.
- alamortsubite 2y ago
  You have to go back ~20 years to when congestion pricing was introduced. To my eyes, the change has been dramatic. https://content.tfl.gov.uk/technical-note-02-what-are-the-main-trends-and-patterns-for-road-traffic-in-london.pdf https://content.tfl.gov.uk/technical-note-02-what-are-the-ma...
mattlondon 2y ago
On the wiki page for the London charge they suggest that ten years after the introduction of the congestion charge, traffic levels have been reduced by 10% (ten). So yes technically less traffic, but not really enough to make any meaningful difference IMO. It is still noisy, it is still congested, it is still polluted, it is still hard to cross roads, it is still hard to get anywhere on a bus in a predictable time, it is still very frightening to be a cyclist (and indeed it is still common for cyclists to get killed or badly injured), and it is still better to get the tube. I view it more as a toll now really, rather than an attempt to dissuade people from driving in. If they were really serious about trying to stop people driving in, the price would not be £15/day but it would be £500/day or more. As it stands at the moment, even on the weekend (yes, it runs on the weekend even though there is not much congestion e.g. on a sunday afternoon) if I want to go to central London with the family I will drive. It costs £15, but the price of a return tube ticket is £6, so x2 for me and the wife and it is already £12, then add in £1.75 for the bus tickets to-and-from the tube station (so £3.50 per adult return = £7), and you are already at £19 to use public transport, vs £15 for the congestion charge. So it is approx 20% cheaper to drive, AND it is more convenient, AND it is quicker, AND it is more comfortable. Like I said, if they were serious about it being a deterrent they'd price it way, way higher than £15. But actually they want to make cheap enough so that people pay it, and they get money for me using my own private transport and fuel to travel around, and don't have to pay for the running costs of more tubes/buses etc.

deanc 2y ago

My ancedotal experience of driving around London once or twice a year for the last ten years is there hasn't been a huge change. I don't trust TFL data on this as the authorities are incentivised to report figures to support the gathering of the additional revenue stream. At least this study [1] suggests a mild improvement but interestingly replacing one pollutant with another (due to diesel exemptions). In my opinion, we should primary focus on improving the standards of public transport. Safety, cleanliness, punctuality and price. I'm a car owner living 15mins drive from downtown of a European capital city, and I refuse to drive near the city because the parking is expensive, there's always roadworks but primarily the public transport is excellent and comfortable. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0166046220302581 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01660...

Symbiote 2y ago
Why would there be a change in London within the last 10 years? Congestion charging was introduced in 2003.
- deanc 2y ago
  ULEZ was introduced for a start.
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    That affects pollution, but very few vehicles were not compliant so it would have minimal effect on congestion.
alamortsubite 2y ago
You have to go back ~20 years to when congestion pricing was introduced. To my eyes, the change has been dramatic. https://content.tfl.gov.uk/technical-note-02-what-are-the-main-trends-and-patterns-for-road-traffic-in-london.pdf https://content.tfl.gov.uk/technical-note-02-what-are-the-ma...

mattlondon 2y ago

On the wiki page for the London charge they suggest that ten years after the introduction of the congestion charge, traffic levels have been reduced by 10% (ten). So yes technically less traffic, but not really enough to make any meaningful difference IMO. It is still noisy, it is still congested, it is still polluted, it is still hard to cross roads, it is still hard to get anywhere on a bus in a predictable time, it is still very frightening to be a cyclist (and indeed it is still common for cyclists to get killed or badly injured), and it is still better to get the tube. I view it more as a toll now really, rather than an attempt to dissuade people from driving in. If they were really serious about trying to stop people driving in, the price would not be £15/day but it would be £500/day or more. As it stands at the moment, even on the weekend (yes, it runs on the weekend even though there is not much congestion e.g. on a sunday afternoon) if I want to go to central London with the family I will drive. It costs £15, but the price of a return tube ticket is £6, so x2 for me and the wife and it is already £12, then add in £1.75 for the bus tickets to-and-from the tube station (so £3.50 per adult return = £7), and you are already at £19 to use public transport, vs £15 for the congestion charge. So it is approx 20% cheaper to drive, AND it is more convenient, AND it is quicker, AND it is more comfortable. Like I said, if they were serious about it being a deterrent they'd price it way, way higher than £15. But actually they want to make cheap enough so that people pay it, and they get money for me using my own private transport and fuel to travel around, and don't have to pay for the running costs of more tubes/buses etc.