5 ms·
3 Generated frames sounds like a lot of lag, probably a sickening amount for many games. The magic of "blackwell flip metering" isn't quite described yet.
by yakaccount4 2y ago
3 Generated frames sounds like a lot of lag, probably a sickening amount for many games. The magic of "blackwell flip metering" isn't quite described yet.
- dagmx 2y agoIt’s 3 extrapolated frames not interpolated. So would be reduced lag at the expense of greater pop-in. There’s also the new reflex 2 which uses reprojection based on mouse motion to generate frames that should also help, but likely has the same drawback.
- perching_aix 2y ago> It’s 3 extrapolated frames not interpolated. Do you have a source for this? Doesn't sound like a very good idea. Nor do I think there's additional latency mind you, but not because it's not interpolation.
- dagmx 2y agohttps://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss4-multi-frame-generation-ai-innovations/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss4-multi-frame-...
- perching_aix 2y agoCould you please point out where on that page does it say anything about "extrapolation"? Searched for the (beginning of the) word directly and even gave all the text a skim, didn't catch anything of the sort.
- satvikpendem 2y agoThe literal word doesn't have to be there in order to imply that it were extrapolation instead of interpolation. By your logic, there is no implication of interpolation versus extrapolation either. Nvidia simply won't use such terms, I believe.
- perching_aix 2y agoThey did specify [0] that it was intermediate frames they were generating back when the 1st version frame generation was announced with DLSS 3, which does translate to interpolation. It's only natural to assume MFG is the same, just with more than a single intermediate frame being generated. It is also just plain unsound to think that it'd not be interpolation - extrapolating frames into the future means inevitably that future not coming to be, and there being serious artifacts every couple frames. This is just nonsense. I checked through (the autogenerated subtitles of) the entire keynote as well, zero mentions there either. I did catch Linus from Linus Tech Tips saying "extrapolation" in his coverage [1], but that was clearly meant colloquially. Maybe that's where OP was coming from? I will give you that they seem to intentionally avoid the word interpolation, and it is reasonable to think then that they'd avoid the word extrapolation too. But then, that's why I asked the person above. If they can point out where on that page I should look for a paragraph that supports what they were saying, not with a literal mention of the word but otherwise, it would be good to know. [0] https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss3-ai-powered-neural-graphics-innovations/#:~:text=to%20create%20intermediate%20frames https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss3-ai-powered-n... [1] https://youtu.be/3a8dScJg6O0?t=345 https://youtu.be/3a8dScJg6O0?t=345
- yakaccount4 2y agoMFG is almost certainly still interpolation. I'm guessing Reflex 2 is more akin to extrapolation, and might be getting the media to cross wires?
- perching_aix 2y agoReflex 2 seems to be asynchronous projection [0]. How the two techs come together when both are enabled, I'm not quite sure how to fit together in my head, but clearly it works fine at least. Hopefully there will be more coverage about these later. [0] https://youtu.be/7qzJHUbAkZw?t=316 https://youtu.be/7qzJHUbAkZw?t=316
- vel0city 2y agoInterpolation means you have frame 1 and frame 2, now compute the interstitial steps between these two. Extrapolation means you have frame 1, and sometime in the future you'll get a frame 2. But until then, take the training data and the current frame and "guess" what the next few frames will be. Interpolation requires you to have the final state between the added frames, extrapolation means you don't yet know what the final state will be but you'll keep drawing until you get there. You shouldn't get additional latency from generating, assuming it's not slowing down the traditional render generation pipeline.
- perching_aix 2y agoI understand this - doesn't address anything of what I said.
- mczarnek 2y agoWhat if you used the last two frames instead of just one.. then it's pretty much same thing
- gruez 2y agohttps://www.nvidia.com/content/dam/en-zz/Solutions/geforce/news/reflex-2-even-lower-latency-gameplay-with-frame-warp/nvidia-reflex-2-frame-warp-explained.jpg https://www.nvidia.com/content/dam/en-zz/Solutions/geforce/n...
- perching_aix 2y agoThis is not even about the same technology the person I replied to was talking about in the quoted section (this is Reflex 2, not MFG).
- ryao 2y agoJensen Huang said during his keynote that you get 3 AI generated frames when rendering a native frame.
- perching_aix 2y agoThis doesn't imply "extrapolation" instead of interpolation.
- kllrnohj 2y ago> It’s 3 extrapolated frames not interpolated. So would be reduced lag at the expense of greater pop-in. it's certainly not reduced lag relative to native rendering. It might be reduced relative to dlss3 frame gen though.
- kllrnohj 2y agoDigital Foundry just covered this. 3x and 4x both add additional latency on top of 2x. https://youtu.be/xpzufsxtZpA?si=hZZlX-g_nueAd7-Q https://youtu.be/xpzufsxtZpA?si=hZZlX-g_nueAd7-Q
- perching_aix 2y ago"Frame generation (FG)" was not a feature in DLSS 2 - the subthread starter was speculating about MFG (of DLSS 4) having worse latency than FG (of DLSS 3), on the basis of more interpolated frames meaning being more frames behind. To me this sounds not quite right, because while yes, you'll technically be more frames behind, those frames are also presented for a that much shorter period. There's no further detail available on this it seems however, so people have pivoted to the human equivalent of LLM hallucinations (non-sequiturs and making shit up then not being able to support it, but also being 100% convinced they are able to and are doing so).
- kllrnohj 2y agoNobody is talking about DLSS 2 here so I don't know where that came from. The 2x, 3x, and 4x in my post are the number of generated frames. So 2x == DLSS 3, and 3x and 4x are then part of the new MFG in DLSS 4. Digital Foundry has actual measurements, so whether or not that matches your intuition is irrelevant. But I think the part you forgot is that generating the frames still takes time in and of itself, and you then need to still present those at a consistent rate for motion smoothness.
- perching_aix 2y agoSeems like I misunderstood your notation. > Digital Foundry has actual measurements, so whether or not that matches your intuition is irrelevant. I mean, it's pretty relevant to me. Will watch it later then.
- perching_aix 2y agoWatched their coverage, not much in the way of details that would explain why the (slightly) increased latency. Your speculation about why MFG takes longer makes sense to me, although I have troubles picturing how exactly the puzzle all fits together. Will have to wait for more in-depth coverage.
- mczarnek 2y agoI'm hearing it's actually interpolated frames, not extrapolated.. I would like better confirmation of that though.