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There are like 400 housing developments in NYC for lower income folks. Saying that lower income folks don't drive in NYC is bananas.

woodruffw 2y ago
The GP is incorrect, but using the absolute number of housing developments in NYC is also misleading (since NYC has lots of middle-income housing developments too). On average, personal drivers on NYC roads skew towards wealthier and suburban, whereas city dwellers of all demographics broadly ride the subway and other mass transit. Congestion pricing will certainly represent a cost for poorer New Yorkers, but it will disproportionately be shouldered by wealthier demographics that are often on the road by choice (e.g. choosing to commute by car from Long Island because the city has inadvertently subsidized doing so with free parking.)
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> There are like 400 housing developments in NYC for lower income folks. Saying that lower income folks don't drive in NYC is bananas. They’re not paying this.
- brettgriffin 2y ago
  On the contrary, they are! ~30% of people entering Manhattan a day are lower income!
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > ~30% of people entering Manhattan a day are lower income In a private car? Where they aren’t eligible for the low-income discounts?
    - brettgriffin 2y ago
      They are eligible for discounts after their 10th trip each month. I think people misinterpreted the point. Saying 'there are no poor people driving and parking in NYC' in an asinine statement when the data clear show that 30% of the drivers into congestion zone are lower income. Whether or not they should, are shouldering more or less of burden, and all of this other nonsense is extraneous.
scienceman 2y ago
Yes, living in NYC = driving in NYC
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> 400 housing developments in NYC for lower income folks. Saying that lower income folks don't drive in NYC is bananas The only people in the projects who have a car work in the trades. They’re largely not paying this charge and/or adding it as a line item to their customers’ bills. A car in Manhattan is an absolute luxury.
rangestransform 2y ago
Giving NYCHA residents free parking spots was bananas
paxys 2y ago
NYC != Manhattan congestion zone. Plenty of people in lower income groups (literally over a million) live and drive in NYC. A negligible number of them drive into Manhattan for work every day.
- brettgriffin 2y ago
  > A negligible number of them drive into Manhattan for work every day. I think you're just making that up. Do you have a source?
alkonaut 2y ago
How does "housing" relate to "cars"? They seem like completely separate things?
- brettgriffin 2y ago
  People in houses can have cars. In fact, ~30% of people entering Manhattan a day are lower income. More specifically, lower income housing is often very far from subway stops. Often in outer boroughs!

woodruffw 2y ago

The GP is incorrect, but using the absolute number of housing developments in NYC is also misleading (since NYC has lots of middle-income housing developments too). On average, personal drivers on NYC roads skew towards wealthier and suburban, whereas city dwellers of all demographics broadly ride the subway and other mass transit. Congestion pricing will certainly represent a cost for poorer New Yorkers, but it will disproportionately be shouldered by wealthier demographics that are often on the road by choice (e.g. choosing to commute by car from Long Island because the city has inadvertently subsidized doing so with free parking.)

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> There are like 400 housing developments in NYC for lower income folks. Saying that lower income folks don't drive in NYC is bananas. They’re not paying this.

brettgriffin 2y ago
On the contrary, they are! ~30% of people entering Manhattan a day are lower income!
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > ~30% of people entering Manhattan a day are lower income In a private car? Where they aren’t eligible for the low-income discounts?
  - brettgriffin 2y ago
    They are eligible for discounts after their 10th trip each month. I think people misinterpreted the point. Saying 'there are no poor people driving and parking in NYC' in an asinine statement when the data clear show that 30% of the drivers into congestion zone are lower income. Whether or not they should, are shouldering more or less of burden, and all of this other nonsense is extraneous.

scienceman 2y ago

Yes, living in NYC = driving in NYC

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> 400 housing developments in NYC for lower income folks. Saying that lower income folks don't drive in NYC is bananas The only people in the projects who have a car work in the trades. They’re largely not paying this charge and/or adding it as a line item to their customers’ bills. A car in Manhattan is an absolute luxury.

rangestransform 2y ago

Giving NYCHA residents free parking spots was bananas

paxys 2y ago

NYC != Manhattan congestion zone. Plenty of people in lower income groups (literally over a million) live and drive in NYC. A negligible number of them drive into Manhattan for work every day.

brettgriffin 2y ago
> A negligible number of them drive into Manhattan for work every day. I think you're just making that up. Do you have a source?

alkonaut 2y ago

How does "housing" relate to "cars"? They seem like completely separate things?

brettgriffin 2y ago
People in houses can have cars. In fact, ~30% of people entering Manhattan a day are lower income. More specifically, lower income housing is often very far from subway stops. Often in outer boroughs!