5 ms·

what is still a big puzzle is why police didn't draw weapons during such a violent attack. Usually police, the DC one including, would draw weapons and shoot at

by trhway 2y ago

what is still a big puzzle is why police didn't draw weapons during such a violent attack. Usually police, the DC one including, would draw weapons and shoot at the smallest perception of even smallest disobedience like say even when a pregnant woman just wouldn't follow their commands, yet during Capitol attack the police behaved completely different. From various videos it seems that the police didn't perceive any threat there at the time.

BadHumans 2y ago
You can't expect the police to shoot their own. Capitol security are the ones that opened the gates to let people in. Biden said it best, if the majority of these people were black there wouldn't any talk of pardons or calling it a peaceful protest.
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
  Just want to nitpick that some capitol security opened some gates to let some people in. Other barriers were overrun relatively violently. This IMO lead to quite a lot of confusion/obfuscation over whether this was a riot or a "peaceful tour of the capitol"
- jstrong 2y ago
  https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/08/931/523/CNN-Headline-Fiery-2.jpg?ve=1&tl=1 https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/conte...
Onavo 2y ago
Because the people they were facing believed too much in the spirit of their second amendment rights and would happily mob and send the cops back to their maker. The people with ARs are not inner city kids who can be easily bullied and abused.
- BadHumans 2y ago
  Secret service killed one of them and they scattered like roaches.
rhcom2 2y ago
When you're outnumbered and draw a gun there is a very high chance of it being taken from you. I think they made the correct decision to retreat in the face of mostly non-violent but overwhelming numbers of rioters. There was obviously one infamous use of force during the whole thing though (Ashli Babbitt) but the police were in a much difference situation than the situation Office Eugene Goodman was in.
notahacker 2y ago
Doesn't seem that puzzling. The world was watching how America transferred power; they didn't want to look like the ones escalating, particularly not when vastly outnumbered by a mob that had arms of their own.
- Ancapistani 2y ago
  > a mob that had arms of their own Source? While I’m sure there were people who carried illegally present, I don’t recall seeing anything about people being arrested or cited for carrying - or for that matter, anyone who claimed to have carried after the fact.
  - piva00 2y ago
    > In the wake of the Jan. 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, a popular narrative has emerged: that because rioters did not fire guns that day, they were not really "armed." > But a review of the federal charges against the alleged rioters shows that they did come armed, and with a variety of weapons: stun guns, pepper spray, baseball bats and flagpoles wielded as clubs. An additional suspect also allegedly planted pipe bombs by the headquarters of the Democratic and Republican parties the night before the riot and remains at large. https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters-were-armed-here-are-the-weapons-prosecutors-say-they-used https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters...
    - whamlastxmas 2y ago
      The pipe bombs were unbelievably fake looking and could have easily been a false flag, the whole story around that is so suspicious. The law enforcement sources declined to even confirm that they were real
throwy1 2y ago
If what you said is true, they should have known about the threat once the cop was killed. So they know the threat. They just did not use force because of the race of the people and the fact that they are the president's supporters. Very simple
pests 2y ago
> From various videos it seems that the police didn't perceive any threat there at the time. Did we watch the same videos? Did you see any footage from the tunnel?
- trhway 2y ago
  Just watched. Typical crowd control in the style police use when the crowd perceived as peaceful and non-threatening. No any indication that the police perceived situation as threatening. If you see any sign that the police, right there at the time, perceived situation as threatening, please point to such a sign(s).
  - ericjmorey 2y ago
    The officers being battered probably thought it was a threat at the time.
    - trhway 2y ago
      I asked for specific signs/indications showing that these officers perceived a threat. When police officers are battered (as perceived by an outsiders like you or me), and the officers don't indicate perception of threat in any way it means only one thing - they perceive that just as a friendly tussle. That demonstrated absence of perception of threat (despite what you today perceive as "them being battered") is pretty puzzling.
      - archagon 2y ago
        > U.S. Capitol Police officer Harry Dunn says that while it’s been two years since rioters attacked the building on Jan. 6, his memories of that day remain fresh and painful. Dunn was outside on the west side of the Capitol, trying to hold the line with other officers, when the sheer number of right-wing rioters began to overwhelm them. Then it was a battle, all day long. “It was a horrific experience, one of the worst days of my life,” Dunn said in an interview with WTOP. “A lot of times, throughout the day, our thoughts were just on survival.” https://wtop.com/dc/2023/01/capitol-police-officer-on-jan-6-one-of-the-worst-days-of-my-life/ https://wtop.com/dc/2023/01/capitol-police-officer-on-jan-6-...
xboxnolifes 2y ago
Is it a puzzle? It seems like how it should go, and be an example for more violent responses to learn from. You shouldn't escalate a situation unnecessarily.
text0404 2y ago
most likely because the police that let them in were complicit? do you not remember someone getting killed when they tried to breach the inner chambers? what's the point that you're circling here? that these people were there to take a tour of the capitol and the gallows, weapons, and IEDs they brought and chants of "hang mike pence" were just jokes? based on the fact that outnumbered police didn't open fire on the crowd? just come out and say it. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iludfj6Pe7w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iludfj6Pe7w - https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-florida-virginia-conspiracy-government-and-politics-6ac80882e8cf61af36be6c46252ac24c https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-florida-virginia-co...
- trhway 2y ago
  so, outnumbered police didn't open fire on the crowd and let that crowd into the Capitol (where lawmakers and Mike Pence were present) despite the crowd having weapons and IEDs and chanting "hang mike pence". That doesn't compute. If the police had any suspicion of weapons and IEDs or were perceiving the chant as anything but a joke or were perceiving any threat to other people in the Capitol i'm sure they would have opened fire.
- whamlastxmas 2y ago
  There were no IEDs
  - text0404 2y ago
    there were: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/29/politics/washington-pipe-bombs-dnc-rnc/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/29/politics/washington-pipe-bomb... https://www.reuters.com/world/us/oath-keeper-brought-explosives-dc-ahead-jan-6-attack-prosecutor-says-2022-07-09/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/oath-keeper-brought-explosi...
    - 93po 2y ago
      "Benedict wouldn’t offer a description of the devices or say what materials they contained, but a law enforcement official familiar with the matter said they contained an explosive powder and were set to go off via the timer." and "It’s still unknown why the devices did not explode, the official said. One theory under investigation is that the timers were set incorrectly. Another is that the batteries may have been improperly connected, the official said" Go google pictures of the "pipe bomb". It is cartoonishly stupid looking. It's using a mechanical kitchen timer, that has no electricity or battery, as the ignition for $0.50 of pipe from Home Depot will with, if I had to guess, powder from roadside fireworks. Everything is connected with alligator clips, not even real wiring or soldering, and in one photo one clip is clearly attached to plastic. This isn't a bomb, it's a firework with a non-existent detonator, and the law enforcement is deliberately vague about because they know it isn't a bomb, but that's no the narrative they want. It's not even clear how they knew anything at all about the devices considering they used a EOD robot to destroy it on-site. Why are the not-bombs in plain sight? Not even attempted to be hidden? Why does is it designed to cartoonishly look like a bomb and not disguised as literally anything else? Why not put it in, I don't know, a plastic grocery bag at least? Why put it in a completely empty alley where there would be virtually no one around to be hurt? This was designed to cause a scare, not hurt anyone. It screams false flag to me, and it worked, because every media outlet reported this as a bomb with zero critical thought or journalism involved, and the entire world now thinks there were bombs when it seems absurdly obvious there wasn't.
josteink 2y ago
> what is still a big puzzle is why police didn't draw weapons during such a violent attack. Usually police, the DC one including, would draw weapons and shoot at the smallest perception of even smallest disobedience There’s video evidence that police were the first to fire, specifically teargas into a reasonably obedient crowd. It’s after this happened things started escalating.

by trhway 2y ago

BadHumans 2y ago

You can't expect the police to shoot their own. Capitol security are the ones that opened the gates to let people in. Biden said it best, if the majority of these people were black there wouldn't any talk of pardons or calling it a peaceful protest.

jazzyjackson 2y ago
Just want to nitpick that some capitol security opened some gates to let some people in. Other barriers were overrun relatively violently. This IMO lead to quite a lot of confusion/obfuscation over whether this was a riot or a "peaceful tour of the capitol"
jstrong 2y ago
https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2020/08/931/523/CNN-Headline-Fiery-2.jpg?ve=1&tl=1 https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/conte...

Onavo 2y ago

Because the people they were facing believed too much in the spirit of their second amendment rights and would happily mob and send the cops back to their maker. The people with ARs are not inner city kids who can be easily bullied and abused.

BadHumans 2y ago
Secret service killed one of them and they scattered like roaches.

rhcom2 2y ago

When you're outnumbered and draw a gun there is a very high chance of it being taken from you. I think they made the correct decision to retreat in the face of mostly non-violent but overwhelming numbers of rioters. There was obviously one infamous use of force during the whole thing though (Ashli Babbitt) but the police were in a much difference situation than the situation Office Eugene Goodman was in.

notahacker 2y ago

Doesn't seem that puzzling. The world was watching how America transferred power; they didn't want to look like the ones escalating, particularly not when vastly outnumbered by a mob that had arms of their own.

Ancapistani 2y ago
> a mob that had arms of their own Source? While I’m sure there were people who carried illegally present, I don’t recall seeing anything about people being arrested or cited for carrying - or for that matter, anyone who claimed to have carried after the fact.
- piva00 2y ago
  > In the wake of the Jan. 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, a popular narrative has emerged: that because rioters did not fire guns that day, they were not really "armed." > But a review of the federal charges against the alleged rioters shows that they did come armed, and with a variety of weapons: stun guns, pepper spray, baseball bats and flagpoles wielded as clubs. An additional suspect also allegedly planted pipe bombs by the headquarters of the Democratic and Republican parties the night before the riot and remains at large. https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters-were-armed-here-are-the-weapons-prosecutors-say-they-used https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/977879589/yes-capitol-rioters...
  - whamlastxmas 2y ago
    The pipe bombs were unbelievably fake looking and could have easily been a false flag, the whole story around that is so suspicious. The law enforcement sources declined to even confirm that they were real

throwy1 2y ago

If what you said is true, they should have known about the threat once the cop was killed. So they know the threat. They just did not use force because of the race of the people and the fact that they are the president's supporters. Very simple

pests 2y ago

> From various videos it seems that the police didn't perceive any threat there at the time. Did we watch the same videos? Did you see any footage from the tunnel?

trhway 2y ago
Just watched. Typical crowd control in the style police use when the crowd perceived as peaceful and non-threatening. No any indication that the police perceived situation as threatening. If you see any sign that the police, right there at the time, perceived situation as threatening, please point to such a sign(s).
- ericjmorey 2y ago
  The officers being battered probably thought it was a threat at the time.
  - trhway 2y ago
    I asked for specific signs/indications showing that these officers perceived a threat. When police officers are battered (as perceived by an outsiders like you or me), and the officers don't indicate perception of threat in any way it means only one thing - they perceive that just as a friendly tussle. That demonstrated absence of perception of threat (despite what you today perceive as "them being battered") is pretty puzzling.
    - archagon 2y ago
      > U.S. Capitol Police officer Harry Dunn says that while it’s been two years since rioters attacked the building on Jan. 6, his memories of that day remain fresh and painful. Dunn was outside on the west side of the Capitol, trying to hold the line with other officers, when the sheer number of right-wing rioters began to overwhelm them. Then it was a battle, all day long. “It was a horrific experience, one of the worst days of my life,” Dunn said in an interview with WTOP. “A lot of times, throughout the day, our thoughts were just on survival.” https://wtop.com/dc/2023/01/capitol-police-officer-on-jan-6-one-of-the-worst-days-of-my-life/ https://wtop.com/dc/2023/01/capitol-police-officer-on-jan-6-...

xboxnolifes 2y ago

Is it a puzzle? It seems like how it should go, and be an example for more violent responses to learn from. You shouldn't escalate a situation unnecessarily.

text0404 2y ago

most likely because the police that let them in were complicit? do you not remember someone getting killed when they tried to breach the inner chambers? what's the point that you're circling here? that these people were there to take a tour of the capitol and the gallows, weapons, and IEDs they brought and chants of "hang mike pence" were just jokes? based on the fact that outnumbered police didn't open fire on the crowd? just come out and say it. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iludfj6Pe7w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iludfj6Pe7w - https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-florida-virginia-conspiracy-government-and-politics-6ac80882e8cf61af36be6c46252ac24c https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-florida-virginia-co...

trhway 2y ago
so, outnumbered police didn't open fire on the crowd and let that crowd into the Capitol (where lawmakers and Mike Pence were present) despite the crowd having weapons and IEDs and chanting "hang mike pence". That doesn't compute. If the police had any suspicion of weapons and IEDs or were perceiving the chant as anything but a joke or were perceiving any threat to other people in the Capitol i'm sure they would have opened fire.
whamlastxmas 2y ago
There were no IEDs
- text0404 2y ago
  there were: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/29/politics/washington-pipe-bombs-dnc-rnc/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/29/politics/washington-pipe-bomb... https://www.reuters.com/world/us/oath-keeper-brought-explosives-dc-ahead-jan-6-attack-prosecutor-says-2022-07-09/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/oath-keeper-brought-explosi...
  - 93po 2y ago
    "Benedict wouldn’t offer a description of the devices or say what materials they contained, but a law enforcement official familiar with the matter said they contained an explosive powder and were set to go off via the timer." and "It’s still unknown why the devices did not explode, the official said. One theory under investigation is that the timers were set incorrectly. Another is that the batteries may have been improperly connected, the official said" Go google pictures of the "pipe bomb". It is cartoonishly stupid looking. It's using a mechanical kitchen timer, that has no electricity or battery, as the ignition for $0.50 of pipe from Home Depot will with, if I had to guess, powder from roadside fireworks. Everything is connected with alligator clips, not even real wiring or soldering, and in one photo one clip is clearly attached to plastic. This isn't a bomb, it's a firework with a non-existent detonator, and the law enforcement is deliberately vague about because they know it isn't a bomb, but that's no the narrative they want. It's not even clear how they knew anything at all about the devices considering they used a EOD robot to destroy it on-site. Why are the not-bombs in plain sight? Not even attempted to be hidden? Why does is it designed to cartoonishly look like a bomb and not disguised as literally anything else? Why not put it in, I don't know, a plastic grocery bag at least? Why put it in a completely empty alley where there would be virtually no one around to be hurt? This was designed to cause a scare, not hurt anyone. It screams false flag to me, and it worked, because every media outlet reported this as a bomb with zero critical thought or journalism involved, and the entire world now thinks there were bombs when it seems absurdly obvious there wasn't.

josteink 2y ago

> what is still a big puzzle is why police didn't draw weapons during such a violent attack. Usually police, the DC one including, would draw weapons and shoot at the smallest perception of even smallest disobedience There’s video evidence that police were the first to fire, specifically teargas into a reasonably obedient crowd. It’s after this happened things started escalating.