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Most of Canada is pretty poor now. From the Economist: https://archive.is/UdixF/ec46ebf7fe812cd5e9432f45f68bd142e6c4a822.avif https://archive.is/UdixF/ec46ebf7

Most of Canada is pretty poor now. From the Economist: https://archive.is/UdixF/ec46ebf7fe812cd5e9432f45f68bd142e6c4a822.avif https://archive.is/UdixF/ec46ebf7fe812cd5e9432f45f68bd142e6c... Their housing is more expensive than the US, but taxes are higher and wages are lower. If Canada’s provinces were states, the populated ones would be poorer than the poorest US states, along with higher taxes and expensive housing. https://brilliantmaps.com/us-vs-canada-gdp-per-capita/ https://brilliantmaps.com/us-vs-canada-gdp-per-capita/ British Columbia is now poorer than Idaho, again, while being much more expensive. Ontario and Quebec and Canada as a whole are now poorer than West Virginia.

wk_end 2y ago
You say "now" as though it's ever not been the case. These comparisons do a poor job of taking into account cost-of-living and quality-of-life; it's simply not the case that you're better off in Montgomery than Toronto.
- nostromo 2y ago
  The median wages for Toronto and Montgomery are actually quite similar: Toronto: $84k CAD ($58k USD) Montgomery: $55k The person living in Montgomery can easily afford a house and a middle-class life. Can the person in Toronto? Would I rather live in Toronto personally? Yes. But on a median salary, no way. https://www.city-data.com/income/income-Montgomery-Alabama.html https://www.city-data.com/income/income-Montgomery-Alabama.h... https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/9877-City-Planning-2021-Census-Backgrounder-Families-Hhlds-Marital-Status-Income.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/9877-City-...
  - wk_end 2y ago
    > The person living in Montgomery can easily afford a house and a middle-class life. Can the person in Toronto? Of course not. But a person living in New York City - making the much higher median household income of 75K USD - also can't afford a house or a middle-class life there. And yet across almost every metric New York is considered a better place to live with higher quality of life than Alabama.
    - rafaelmn 2y ago
      > also can't afford a house or a middle-class life there. So can you compare cost of living between NYC and Toronto and does the difference in median account for COL difference ? Would be interesting to hear some first hand experiences from people who lived in both or similarly comparable US/Canadian cities. I was under the impression that Chinese investment in Canadian real estate really destroyed the housign market. I feel like the growing popularity of investing in residential real estate is a global phenomena but some markets are more exposed to some effects than others so it's possible to get some intuition on what impacts it.
      - wk_end 2y ago
        Yeah, you're probably - in most regards, depending on various things - better off living in NYC than Toronto (having lived in both). But that's at least a conversation worth having, a comparison worth making. Comparing Canada to the poorest places in America like the person I was replying to was solely on the basis of average wealth only makes sense if you've never been within spitting distance of either.
      - sudosysgen 2y ago
        I have lived in both. It's easier to afford a Canadian home, despite their price, especially in Montreal but even in Toronto, compared to NYC or SF, for the median person. The median household income in NYC is ~80k, vs ~95k in Toronto.
        3vidence 2y ago
        Canada is much much more geographicly concentrated than the US. Toronto is definitely cheaper than NYC. However Toronto represents a WAYYYY higher percentage of Canadians than NY does. Rough numbers. GTA population ~7 million NYC population ~8.5 million By representation GTA represents 10x the amount of the country that NYC does. Major cities being unaffordable in Canada pretty much means Canada is unaffordable. The same case is not true in the US
        2y ago
hn-acct 2y ago
[flagged]
throaway89 2y ago
The social services are better in Canada though. The big downside is the lack of quickly available treatment for serious-but-not-life-threatening illness.
- UncleOxidant 2y ago
  > The big downside is the lack of quickly available treatment for serious-but-not-life-threatening illness. Which often happens in the US as well. I recall having to wait 3 months to get in to see a gastroenterologist about 10 years ago. People living in rural areas of the US often face this so it's not like it's a problem exclusive to Canada or other countries with universal healthcare.
- bko 2y ago
  It doesn’t help if you can’t afford a house. If you just look at a simple crude statistic like gdp per capital US is 83% higher. You can’t make stuff appear out of thin air, there’s less resources to go around and people are objectively worse off
  - throaway89 2y ago
    It actually does help, in fact it helps MORE if you cant afford a house, or are homeless, to have a strong social net. Not arguing that the US isn't richer or can offer more financial resources to its citizens.

wk_end 2y ago

You say "now" as though it's ever not been the case. These comparisons do a poor job of taking into account cost-of-living and quality-of-life; it's simply not the case that you're better off in Montgomery than Toronto.

nostromo 2y ago
The median wages for Toronto and Montgomery are actually quite similar: Toronto: $84k CAD ($58k USD) Montgomery: $55k The person living in Montgomery can easily afford a house and a middle-class life. Can the person in Toronto? Would I rather live in Toronto personally? Yes. But on a median salary, no way. https://www.city-data.com/income/income-Montgomery-Alabama.html https://www.city-data.com/income/income-Montgomery-Alabama.h... https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/9877-City-Planning-2021-Census-Backgrounder-Families-Hhlds-Marital-Status-Income.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/9877-City-...
- wk_end 2y ago
  > The person living in Montgomery can easily afford a house and a middle-class life. Can the person in Toronto? Of course not. But a person living in New York City - making the much higher median household income of 75K USD - also can't afford a house or a middle-class life there. And yet across almost every metric New York is considered a better place to live with higher quality of life than Alabama.
  - rafaelmn 2y ago
    > also can't afford a house or a middle-class life there. So can you compare cost of living between NYC and Toronto and does the difference in median account for COL difference ? Would be interesting to hear some first hand experiences from people who lived in both or similarly comparable US/Canadian cities. I was under the impression that Chinese investment in Canadian real estate really destroyed the housign market. I feel like the growing popularity of investing in residential real estate is a global phenomena but some markets are more exposed to some effects than others so it's possible to get some intuition on what impacts it.
    - wk_end 2y ago
      Yeah, you're probably - in most regards, depending on various things - better off living in NYC than Toronto (having lived in both). But that's at least a conversation worth having, a comparison worth making. Comparing Canada to the poorest places in America like the person I was replying to was solely on the basis of average wealth only makes sense if you've never been within spitting distance of either.
    - sudosysgen 2y ago
      I have lived in both. It's easier to afford a Canadian home, despite their price, especially in Montreal but even in Toronto, compared to NYC or SF, for the median person. The median household income in NYC is ~80k, vs ~95k in Toronto.
      - 3vidence 2y ago
        Canada is much much more geographicly concentrated than the US. Toronto is definitely cheaper than NYC. However Toronto represents a WAYYYY higher percentage of Canadians than NY does. Rough numbers. GTA population ~7 million NYC population ~8.5 million By representation GTA represents 10x the amount of the country that NYC does. Major cities being unaffordable in Canada pretty much means Canada is unaffordable. The same case is not true in the US
        2y ago

hn-acct 2y ago

[flagged]

throaway89 2y ago

The social services are better in Canada though. The big downside is the lack of quickly available treatment for serious-but-not-life-threatening illness.

UncleOxidant 2y ago
> The big downside is the lack of quickly available treatment for serious-but-not-life-threatening illness. Which often happens in the US as well. I recall having to wait 3 months to get in to see a gastroenterologist about 10 years ago. People living in rural areas of the US often face this so it's not like it's a problem exclusive to Canada or other countries with universal healthcare.
bko 2y ago
It doesn’t help if you can’t afford a house. If you just look at a simple crude statistic like gdp per capital US is 83% higher. You can’t make stuff appear out of thin air, there’s less resources to go around and people are objectively worse off
- throaway89 2y ago
  It actually does help, in fact it helps MORE if you cant afford a house, or are homeless, to have a strong social net. Not arguing that the US isn't richer or can offer more financial resources to its citizens.