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> One could endlessly go on... Yet, apparently one will instead sidestep the discussion entirely. Frankly the more you've tried to answer the question the less

> One could endlessly go on... Yet, apparently one will instead sidestep the discussion entirely. Frankly the more you've tried to answer the question the less you actually answer it... I don't see how "rapidly transitioning from a high-trust to a low-trust society" or "she's got 2 bikes stolen ... this would be inconceivable to me during my time living in the same town" reflect failures in Canadian government at all, really. Has societal trust actually increased anywhere in the developed world? Sure, our governments have had their share of failures, but it would actually take an extraordinary vision and effort to increase societal trust as technology and population advance. Is it possible your sister had a shockingly unlucky semester? Or that your world model was simply naive and wrong 10 years ago? Hard to say since the anecdote isn't really evidence of anything.

randomopining 2y ago
Look at Japan as a homogenous and extremely (if not the most) high trust society.
- krapp 2y ago
  >Look at Japan as a homogenous and extremely (if not the most) high trust society. Why does Japan need separate trains for women, and why can the shutter sound on Japanese phones not be turned off?
  - jim-jim-jim 2y ago
    All countries need this; Japan's just the only one that did something about it. I'm sure NYC ladies would love segregated cars right about now.
- digging 2y ago
  Um... why exactly am I looking for a highly homogenous society?
  - randomopining 2y ago
    I'm just saying they tend to be more high trust, which is supported by statistical data.
cynicalpeace 2y ago
Ah yes, increasing theft is just a fact of the "developed" world, and simultaneously, anyone that claims theft has increased is just imagining things.
- digging 2y ago
  > Ah yes, increasing theft is just a fact of the "developed" world It seems like a pretty likely outcome of high population growth! > anyone that claims theft has increased is just imagining things Anyone that claims an anecdote is data is just bullshitting, actually.
  - cynicalpeace 2y ago
    anecdote is actually data tho lol
AlexandrB 2y ago
Every store in my town now locks up anything small that costs more than $20 in cages. Talking to some people working there it was pretty common for people to walk in, take a bunch of shit, and walk out. Drivers are completely out of control. I've witnessed at least 3 people run red lights in the last 2 years, while I can remember only one such incident in the 10 years before that. Signalling is no longer something drivers do - like at all. For the last 2 years teenagers have terrorized the local park on Canada Day shooting fireworks at random passers by. With someone setting off fireworks under an occupied baby carriage last year. Car thefts in Toronto got so bad that people were building retractable bollards in their driveways[1]. I could go on, but there's a clear apparent trajectory to these experiences. [1] https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/a-thief-will-think-twice-some-torontonians-installing-bollards-to-prevent-auto-theft-1.6926842?cache=%2F7.587727%2F7.483015 https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/a-thief-will-think-twice-some-tor...
- digging 2y ago
  Still mostly anecdotal, but a better answer, and probably belongs higher up in the thread actually.
  - zahlman 2y ago
    >Still mostly anecdotal In principle, what sort of hard evidence is gathered that could establish the point?
    - digging 2y ago
      I'm kind of confused by the question. Do you think an unverified commenter on a public website saying "all the stores in my town [not named] do X [but I didn't count]" is a type of hard evidence that I'm arbitrarily rejecting?
      - zahlman 2y ago
        No; I think that there's no feasible way that anyone could have hard evidence one way or another for the underlying question, and that you should therefore take anecdotes more seriously.
variadix 2y ago
Technology isn’t the issue Mass immigration and increasing wealth disparity are much more relevant.
jyscao 2y ago
If you know you know, and clearly plenty of people who read my original comment do. Judging from your other comments, you're either wilfully ignorant or actively dishonest, can't tell which, and frankly don't care either way. All I know is it'd be a complete waste of time to try to convince you.
- digging 2y ago
  > If you know you know And if you don't, you... don't deserve to know? > you're either wilfully ignorant or actively dishonest I think "willful ignorance" is a good description of accepting impossible-to-verify anecdotes of internet comments as evidence of societal change, personally. But I'm realizing we don't have the same goals in the conversation so I understand why it feels pointless to continue.
mc3301 2y ago
>Has societal trust actually increased anywhere in the developed world? Sure, our governments have had their share of failures, but it would actually take an extraordinary vision and effort to increase societal trust as technology and population advance. Japan. Again, depending on where in the country, but things like muggings and drunk driving have drastically decreased in the last 35 years.

randomopining 2y ago

Look at Japan as a homogenous and extremely (if not the most) high trust society.

krapp 2y ago
>Look at Japan as a homogenous and extremely (if not the most) high trust society. Why does Japan need separate trains for women, and why can the shutter sound on Japanese phones not be turned off?
- jim-jim-jim 2y ago
  All countries need this; Japan's just the only one that did something about it. I'm sure NYC ladies would love segregated cars right about now.
digging 2y ago
Um... why exactly am I looking for a highly homogenous society?
- randomopining 2y ago
  I'm just saying they tend to be more high trust, which is supported by statistical data.

cynicalpeace 2y ago

Ah yes, increasing theft is just a fact of the "developed" world, and simultaneously, anyone that claims theft has increased is just imagining things.

digging 2y ago
> Ah yes, increasing theft is just a fact of the "developed" world It seems like a pretty likely outcome of high population growth! > anyone that claims theft has increased is just imagining things Anyone that claims an anecdote is data is just bullshitting, actually.
- cynicalpeace 2y ago
  anecdote is actually data tho lol

AlexandrB 2y ago

Every store in my town now locks up anything small that costs more than $20 in cages. Talking to some people working there it was pretty common for people to walk in, take a bunch of shit, and walk out. Drivers are completely out of control. I've witnessed at least 3 people run red lights in the last 2 years, while I can remember only one such incident in the 10 years before that. Signalling is no longer something drivers do - like at all. For the last 2 years teenagers have terrorized the local park on Canada Day shooting fireworks at random passers by. With someone setting off fireworks under an occupied baby carriage last year. Car thefts in Toronto got so bad that people were building retractable bollards in their driveways[1]. I could go on, but there's a clear apparent trajectory to these experiences. [1] https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/a-thief-will-think-twice-some-torontonians-installing-bollards-to-prevent-auto-theft-1.6926842?cache=%2F7.587727%2F7.483015 https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/a-thief-will-think-twice-some-tor...

digging 2y ago
Still mostly anecdotal, but a better answer, and probably belongs higher up in the thread actually.
- zahlman 2y ago
  >Still mostly anecdotal In principle, what sort of hard evidence is gathered that could establish the point?
  - digging 2y ago
    I'm kind of confused by the question. Do you think an unverified commenter on a public website saying "all the stores in my town [not named] do X [but I didn't count]" is a type of hard evidence that I'm arbitrarily rejecting?
    - zahlman 2y ago
      No; I think that there's no feasible way that anyone could have hard evidence one way or another for the underlying question, and that you should therefore take anecdotes more seriously.

variadix 2y ago

Technology isn’t the issue Mass immigration and increasing wealth disparity are much more relevant.

jyscao 2y ago

If you know you know, and clearly plenty of people who read my original comment do. Judging from your other comments, you're either wilfully ignorant or actively dishonest, can't tell which, and frankly don't care either way. All I know is it'd be a complete waste of time to try to convince you.

digging 2y ago
> If you know you know And if you don't, you... don't deserve to know? > you're either wilfully ignorant or actively dishonest I think "willful ignorance" is a good description of accepting impossible-to-verify anecdotes of internet comments as evidence of societal change, personally. But I'm realizing we don't have the same goals in the conversation so I understand why it feels pointless to continue.

mc3301 2y ago

>Has societal trust actually increased anywhere in the developed world? Sure, our governments have had their share of failures, but it would actually take an extraordinary vision and effort to increase societal trust as technology and population advance. Japan. Again, depending on where in the country, but things like muggings and drunk driving have drastically decreased in the last 35 years.