4 ms·

It's absolutely astounding that there have not been harsher consequences for the police who abandoned their duty in Ottawa. Where is the of rule of law here?

bryanlarsen 2y ago
The Police Chief lost his job over it. What other consequences would you think appropriate?
- morkalork 2y ago
  Investigations and penalties for everyone up the chain, starting with the frontline officers who were on the ground refusing to issue tickets. If an officer chooses to not do their job over their political beliefs they do not belong on the force.
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    Absolutely. I'm a paramedic. I will be in front of a licensing hearing defending why should be allowed to continue as a paramedic to the DOH if I refuse to treat a patient because of politics/beliefs, as an EMS provider. Depending on the severity, I can even be facing administrative charges of patient abandonment under my state's Administrative Code for standards of care for providers.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - parineum 2y ago
      "Over politics" does some legwork for you here as does the singling out of you vs the entire cadre of EMS. Consider it, instead, that the police, as a whole, joined the protest which also had a decent amount of support from the populous. That's a far cry from one person refusing to do their job with very little (almost none) support from the populous, as your analogy would be. If it was a single cop refusing to arrest a Nazi for a crime because they agreed with them, that cop would be fired.
      - ethbr1 2y ago
        * populace
  - inglor_cz 2y ago
    “If you owe the bank $100, that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem.” Same applies here. If 10 officers misbehave, it is easy to fire them all, as you suggest. If a majority of the entire police force defects, your only choice is between limiting the scope of the punishment to a few ringleaders vs. basically disbanding the police force and starting a new one from scratch, hoping that you can even recruit enough people to do so; but, in the meantime, the city won't be policed anymore, as the entire institutional memory has been purged. In most similar cases in history, the authorities opted for a blanket pardon, as it is much less of a headache. It is not even a new problem. Police is a relatively recent institution, but armies, gendarmes, legions etc. rebelled all the time, and peace usually had to be bought by concessions.
    - jazzyjackson 2y ago
      It's not unheard of to disband and reconstitute a police department. I would argue its the right move when the organization as a whole has effectively gone rogue. The most significant example I'm aware of is Camden New Jersey. The city’s crime rate was among the worst in the US. Within nine square miles and among nearly 75,000 residents, there were over 170 open-air drug markets reported in 2013, county officials told CNN. Violent crime abounded. Police corruption was at the core. Lawsuits filed against the department uncovered that officers routinely planted evidence on suspects, fabricated reports and committed perjury. After the corruption was exposed, courts overturned the convictions of 88 people, the ACLU reported in 2013. So in 2012, officials voted to completely disband the department – it was beyond reform. And in 2013, the Camden County Police Department officially began its tenure. No other city of Camden’s size has done anything quite like it. https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disband-police-camden-new-jersey-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disband-police-camden-new-...
- pyuser583 2y ago
  Loss of support for elected officials?
refurb 2y ago
People don’t seem to understand that the government rules based on enough popular support. When the police start siding with protestors that’s a government problem, not police problem.
- morkalork 2y ago
  The protest did not have popular support amongst the general population. If police support a fringe movement that's an everybody problem.
  - refurb 2y ago
    Look at it by age, it was highest by the youngest age group (61% had sympathy for the protest in the 18-35 age range) - the working age.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]

bryanlarsen 2y ago

The Police Chief lost his job over it. What other consequences would you think appropriate?

morkalork 2y ago
Investigations and penalties for everyone up the chain, starting with the frontline officers who were on the ground refusing to issue tickets. If an officer chooses to not do their job over their political beliefs they do not belong on the force.
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  Absolutely. I'm a paramedic. I will be in front of a licensing hearing defending why should be allowed to continue as a paramedic to the DOH if I refuse to treat a patient because of politics/beliefs, as an EMS provider. Depending on the severity, I can even be facing administrative charges of patient abandonment under my state's Administrative Code for standards of care for providers.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - parineum 2y ago
    "Over politics" does some legwork for you here as does the singling out of you vs the entire cadre of EMS. Consider it, instead, that the police, as a whole, joined the protest which also had a decent amount of support from the populous. That's a far cry from one person refusing to do their job with very little (almost none) support from the populous, as your analogy would be. If it was a single cop refusing to arrest a Nazi for a crime because they agreed with them, that cop would be fired.
    - ethbr1 2y ago
      * populace
- inglor_cz 2y ago
  “If you owe the bank $100, that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem.” Same applies here. If 10 officers misbehave, it is easy to fire them all, as you suggest. If a majority of the entire police force defects, your only choice is between limiting the scope of the punishment to a few ringleaders vs. basically disbanding the police force and starting a new one from scratch, hoping that you can even recruit enough people to do so; but, in the meantime, the city won't be policed anymore, as the entire institutional memory has been purged. In most similar cases in history, the authorities opted for a blanket pardon, as it is much less of a headache. It is not even a new problem. Police is a relatively recent institution, but armies, gendarmes, legions etc. rebelled all the time, and peace usually had to be bought by concessions.
  - jazzyjackson 2y ago
    It's not unheard of to disband and reconstitute a police department. I would argue its the right move when the organization as a whole has effectively gone rogue. The most significant example I'm aware of is Camden New Jersey. The city’s crime rate was among the worst in the US. Within nine square miles and among nearly 75,000 residents, there were over 170 open-air drug markets reported in 2013, county officials told CNN. Violent crime abounded. Police corruption was at the core. Lawsuits filed against the department uncovered that officers routinely planted evidence on suspects, fabricated reports and committed perjury. After the corruption was exposed, courts overturned the convictions of 88 people, the ACLU reported in 2013. So in 2012, officials voted to completely disband the department – it was beyond reform. And in 2013, the Camden County Police Department officially began its tenure. No other city of Camden’s size has done anything quite like it. https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disband-police-camden-new-jersey-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/disband-police-camden-new-...
pyuser583 2y ago
Loss of support for elected officials?

refurb 2y ago

People don’t seem to understand that the government rules based on enough popular support. When the police start siding with protestors that’s a government problem, not police problem.

morkalork 2y ago
The protest did not have popular support amongst the general population. If police support a fringe movement that's an everybody problem.
- refurb 2y ago
  Look at it by age, it was highest by the youngest age group (61% had sympathy for the protest in the 18-35 age range) - the working age.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]