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> effectively holding our economy hostage This is what a protest is. (French here). If protesters go as far, and in Canada it was because you did them dirty, t

> effectively holding our economy hostage This is what a protest is. (French here). If protesters go as far, and in Canada it was because you did them dirty, then you must sit at a table and negotiate. You must sit at a table and negotiate with everyone in a country. You cannot do someone dirty then complain that they protest. It’s effects removing the right to protest, and therefore, removing democracy itself. Go live in Singapore?

lamontcg 2y ago
I mean, the South in the US waged a really big protest because they wanted slaves, and we murdered each other enough that they sort of changed their mind. Not every political grievance is on the right side of history.
- B1FF_PSUVM 2y ago
  > the right side of history. A particularly odious moral framework, mostly used to justify mass murder.
  - tlss 2y ago
    Everyone thinks they're on the right side of history :)
    - lamontcg 2y ago
      I guess it's time for slavery again, then.
alext5 2y ago
Please, disagreeing on a topic and providing arguments is one thing, but suggesting somebody go live in another country because you don’t agree with them on something that happened in their country is disrespectful.
throw0101d 2y ago
> This is what a protest is. They became occupiers when they started living in their trucks. There is no right to occupy in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. If they had slow-rolled their trucks to create traffic jams that is a protest and would have been quite another thing (but also generally illegal, e.g., Ontario Highway Traffic Act §132). If you don't like what the government is doing elect a new government: that's what elections are for. You don't get to throw a hissy fit and mess up other people's lives and livelihood every time there's a decision you don't like. Every society is about balancing the rights of the individual and the rights of the collective, and their responsibilities as well. About balancing of different rights when they are in opposition to each other.
adamc 2y ago
Not a Canadian, but no, a protest protests and gives voice to the disagreement. Blocking other people's rights is not just a protest and is likely to trigger action to protect others. That's how it goes everywhere that has rights. Normally, some effort is made to do it peacefully, but there are no countries where you can halt the economy whenever you want to force people to negotiate with you.
- tlss 2y ago
  I mean, this is the French way. SNCF striking (a yearly occurrence) is arguably halting the economy each time it happens. As a sympathizer to the HK protests, I've heard all these talking points before -- that the protesters are ruining the economy and making things miserable for everyone. Usually the protests can really only get so big when there is a shared grievance that keeps getting ignored by the administration. In the case of HK, the grievance was the possibility for criminals to be extradited to Chinese mainland. In the case of convoy protests, the grievance was the vaccine mandate in order to work a trucking job that's mostly solitary with minimal human contact.
  - bawolff 2y ago
    I think a better comparison would be the jan 6 protests in usa in 2021.
- throaway89 2y ago
  A protest which isn't allowed to do anything other than raise voices is a powerless and toothless protest.
  - eastbound 2y ago
    Preferably online, but not on a website that everyone sees. Something silent. On the side. Also please have the dignity to die in peace, not commit suicide in a place where everyone can see it.
  - adamc 2y ago
    I don't agree. There were a bunch of university protests over Gaza (slapped down for stupid reasons by university administrators under pressure from government), and, really, they just made noise, but they got a lot of people to notice, including myself. And to ask ourselves, what do I think about this? If you are expecting protests to force someone's hand, that isn't protest or protected political speech, that's coercion. Some forms of that are legal (e.g., strikes), but there are pretty sharply defined limits.
cmrdporcupine 2y ago
Speaking as someone who has been in dozens of protests in my life: yes, that is what protest is, and as a protester engaging in civil disobedience you expect the response from authorities. That is exactly the point. When I have been on the receiving end of tear gas, there was no surprise. Big duh. Crying because your illegal civil disobedience led to civil reaction by the law is the height of "oh no the leopard ate my face" idiocy.
- lordloki 2y ago
  They weren't punished by the law though, they were debanked in an era where you need to use the banks to eat, pay rent and to merely survive. That is above and beyond any legal punishment. It is economic banishment and it is se excessive that it alone should be shunned by any person who wants civilization to survive.

lamontcg 2y ago

I mean, the South in the US waged a really big protest because they wanted slaves, and we murdered each other enough that they sort of changed their mind. Not every political grievance is on the right side of history.

B1FF_PSUVM 2y ago
> the right side of history. A particularly odious moral framework, mostly used to justify mass murder.
- tlss 2y ago
  Everyone thinks they're on the right side of history :)
  - lamontcg 2y ago
    I guess it's time for slavery again, then.

alext5 2y ago

Please, disagreeing on a topic and providing arguments is one thing, but suggesting somebody go live in another country because you don’t agree with them on something that happened in their country is disrespectful.

throw0101d 2y ago

> This is what a protest is. They became occupiers when they started living in their trucks. There is no right to occupy in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. If they had slow-rolled their trucks to create traffic jams that is a protest and would have been quite another thing (but also generally illegal, e.g., Ontario Highway Traffic Act §132). If you don't like what the government is doing elect a new government: that's what elections are for. You don't get to throw a hissy fit and mess up other people's lives and livelihood every time there's a decision you don't like. Every society is about balancing the rights of the individual and the rights of the collective, and their responsibilities as well. About balancing of different rights when they are in opposition to each other.

adamc 2y ago

Not a Canadian, but no, a protest protests and gives voice to the disagreement. Blocking other people's rights is not just a protest and is likely to trigger action to protect others. That's how it goes everywhere that has rights. Normally, some effort is made to do it peacefully, but there are no countries where you can halt the economy whenever you want to force people to negotiate with you.

tlss 2y ago
I mean, this is the French way. SNCF striking (a yearly occurrence) is arguably halting the economy each time it happens. As a sympathizer to the HK protests, I've heard all these talking points before -- that the protesters are ruining the economy and making things miserable for everyone. Usually the protests can really only get so big when there is a shared grievance that keeps getting ignored by the administration. In the case of HK, the grievance was the possibility for criminals to be extradited to Chinese mainland. In the case of convoy protests, the grievance was the vaccine mandate in order to work a trucking job that's mostly solitary with minimal human contact.
- bawolff 2y ago
  I think a better comparison would be the jan 6 protests in usa in 2021.
throaway89 2y ago
A protest which isn't allowed to do anything other than raise voices is a powerless and toothless protest.
- eastbound 2y ago
  Preferably online, but not on a website that everyone sees. Something silent. On the side. Also please have the dignity to die in peace, not commit suicide in a place where everyone can see it.
- adamc 2y ago
  I don't agree. There were a bunch of university protests over Gaza (slapped down for stupid reasons by university administrators under pressure from government), and, really, they just made noise, but they got a lot of people to notice, including myself. And to ask ourselves, what do I think about this? If you are expecting protests to force someone's hand, that isn't protest or protected political speech, that's coercion. Some forms of that are legal (e.g., strikes), but there are pretty sharply defined limits.

cmrdporcupine 2y ago

Speaking as someone who has been in dozens of protests in my life: yes, that is what protest is, and as a protester engaging in civil disobedience you expect the response from authorities. That is exactly the point. When I have been on the receiving end of tear gas, there was no surprise. Big duh. Crying because your illegal civil disobedience led to civil reaction by the law is the height of "oh no the leopard ate my face" idiocy.

lordloki 2y ago
They weren't punished by the law though, they were debanked in an era where you need to use the banks to eat, pay rent and to merely survive. That is above and beyond any legal punishment. It is economic banishment and it is se excessive that it alone should be shunned by any person who wants civilization to survive.