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YSK that the people who had their accounts frozen weren't simply protesting in Ottawa; they were blocking international borders to our largest trading partner,

YSK that the people who had their accounts frozen weren't simply protesting in Ottawa; they were blocking international borders to our largest trading partner, effectively holding our economy hostage. This absolutely constitutes behavior that's a danger to our nation so it makes sense to freeze the accounts of the people doing it. To be clear, there were many attempts to settle this without freezing people's bank accounts, but when nothing else works sometimes you have to get out the big guns.

Cumpiler69 2y ago
>but when nothing else works sometimes you have to get out the big guns. Isn't that why you have the police, army, etc? You use force to remove those people breaking the laws, not go after their families. That's some USSR shit.
- leptons 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - lp0_on_fire 2y ago
    > The truckers were warned what would happen, and they made their families pay the price. This is a terrifying comment and you should really start re-examining your outlook on life. I really hope you are nowhere near any sort of lever of power.
    - leptons 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - lp0_on_fire 2y ago
        [flagged]
        leptons 2y ago
        [flagged]
  - parineum 2y ago
    > Police refused to do their jobs. I think this is better framed as "joined the protest", from the perspective of the police. As a US analogy, sanctuary cities or states with "legalized" marijuana have police who are refusing to do their job. Should thenfederal government freeze the accounta of police officers until they do? If the thing your doing is causing such unrest, perhaps the government shouldn't be doing that thing.
- bawolff 2y ago
  > Isn't that why you have the police, army, etc? You use force to remove those people breaking the laws, not go after their families. That's some USSR shit. Nobody went after anyone's family. If you solicit donations to fund a criminal act, you lose access to the money you raise. This is a thing that happens in normal crime too. Its not just an emergency act thing. People forget that many of the protestors who lost banking access wasn't due to the emergency act, but because one pissed off ottawa resident sued them in civil court and obtained a court order to that affect.
MattGaiser 2y ago
Or the ones in Coutts with guns and a pipe bomb.
- catgary 2y ago
  Yeah are we forgetting Alberta truckers who were planning to murder RCMP officers, and were straight-up terrorists?
  - gadders 2y ago
    The thing they were found not guilty of? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/anthony-olienick-chris-carbert-protesters-not-guilty-murder-conspiracy-rcmp-1.7284629 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/anthony-olienick-chri...
    - CamelCaseName 2y ago
      > But Anthony Olienick and Chris Carbert were both convicted on other charges of mischief and possession of a weapon for a dangerous purpose. Olienick was also convicted of possessing a pipe bomb. > "It was an overcharge to begin with," Beyak said. > He said if police tried to storm the barricade, he would "slit their throats."
      - gadders 2y ago
        So a few of them had guns then?
        potato3732842 2y ago
        They won't tell you this because the patchwork of regulations makes it literally impossible to do so legally but a very large minority, perhaps brushing up to scant majority depending on where you measure, of truckers in North America pack heat. They're in and out of all sorts of sketchy places all the time, never have local knowledge and would be insanely easy pickings for various types of career criminals if they (as a class of people) were not a risky target.
eastbound 2y ago
> effectively holding our economy hostage This is what a protest is. (French here). If protesters go as far, and in Canada it was because you did them dirty, then you must sit at a table and negotiate. You must sit at a table and negotiate with everyone in a country. You cannot do someone dirty then complain that they protest. It’s effects removing the right to protest, and therefore, removing democracy itself. Go live in Singapore?
- lamontcg 2y ago
  I mean, the South in the US waged a really big protest because they wanted slaves, and we murdered each other enough that they sort of changed their mind. Not every political grievance is on the right side of history.
  - B1FF_PSUVM 2y ago
    > the right side of history. A particularly odious moral framework, mostly used to justify mass murder.
    - tlss 2y ago
      Everyone thinks they're on the right side of history :)
      - lamontcg 2y ago
        I guess it's time for slavery again, then.
- alext5 2y ago
  Please, disagreeing on a topic and providing arguments is one thing, but suggesting somebody go live in another country because you don’t agree with them on something that happened in their country is disrespectful.
- throw0101d 2y ago
  > This is what a protest is. They became occupiers when they started living in their trucks. There is no right to occupy in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. If they had slow-rolled their trucks to create traffic jams that is a protest and would have been quite another thing (but also generally illegal, e.g., Ontario Highway Traffic Act §132). If you don't like what the government is doing elect a new government: that's what elections are for. You don't get to throw a hissy fit and mess up other people's lives and livelihood every time there's a decision you don't like. Every society is about balancing the rights of the individual and the rights of the collective, and their responsibilities as well. About balancing of different rights when they are in opposition to each other.
ungreased0675 2y ago
That logic seems like it would outlaw labor strikes too, especially in important industries. Sometimes, holding the economy hostage is the point. I take exception to the framing of “attempts to settle this.” The government used violence and threat of violence to make the problem go away. There wasn’t an attempt at compromise. Do what I say or else isn’t an attempt to settle.
- segasaturn 2y ago
  The recent postal strikes in Canada are an example of the situation you're describing. Eventually the federal government had to step in and break the strike to get the mail system moving again - if the workers refused to comply, against the orders of the government, I actually think strong measures like the freezing of bank accounts would be warranted and supported by most Canadians.
  - gruez 2y ago
    >I actually think strong measures like the freezing of bank accounts would be warranted and supported by most Canadians. Typically such measures are mandated by court order, not executive fiat.
  - ungreased0675 2y ago
    The government should be able to force people to work under worse conditions and less pay they want to? That’s ok if most Canadians support it? Really? I hope you can appreciate just how dangerous this sounds, even if you think my slippery slope has a lot of traction on it.
- roncesvalles 2y ago
  Except it wasn't a labour strike.
  - gruez 2y ago
    That's how analogies are supposed to work. How do you expect civil society to function if people only supported civil disobedience when it's their preferred cause?
freedomben 2y ago
Out of curiosity, how do you feel about labor strikes? If customs, border control, longshoremen, or some other union decided to strike and picket would you support having the feds declare them terrorists and doing the banking thing?
- kennyloginz 2y ago
  If they blocked travel arteries like highways and bridges for more than a hour or two.
Khaine 2y ago
Stop Oil glue themselves to the road in cities as a protest, disrupting the economic output of major cities. They haven't been treated like a terrorist organisation. By your logic they should be.
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago
  Actually the Harper gov't passed laws when in power that enabled them to treat such protests against fossil fuels as terrorist or threat-to-national-security events. And pipeline blocking protests in BC saw fairly heavy handed police intervention under the Trudeau govt. Those blockades were cleared by the RCMP, quite aggressively, something which the police basically refused to do for the convoy protest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Canadian_pipeline_and_railway_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Canadian_pipeline_and_rai... I don't think it's really that cut and dry of a comparison in favour of your argument. Oil and gas protests in Canada have been treated more aggressively than the convoy was.

Cumpiler69 2y ago

>but when nothing else works sometimes you have to get out the big guns. Isn't that why you have the police, army, etc? You use force to remove those people breaking the laws, not go after their families. That's some USSR shit.

leptons 2y ago
[flagged]
- lp0_on_fire 2y ago
  > The truckers were warned what would happen, and they made their families pay the price. This is a terrifying comment and you should really start re-examining your outlook on life. I really hope you are nowhere near any sort of lever of power.
  - leptons 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - lp0_on_fire 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - leptons 2y ago
        [flagged]
- parineum 2y ago
  > Police refused to do their jobs. I think this is better framed as "joined the protest", from the perspective of the police. As a US analogy, sanctuary cities or states with "legalized" marijuana have police who are refusing to do their job. Should thenfederal government freeze the accounta of police officers until they do? If the thing your doing is causing such unrest, perhaps the government shouldn't be doing that thing.
bawolff 2y ago
> Isn't that why you have the police, army, etc? You use force to remove those people breaking the laws, not go after their families. That's some USSR shit. Nobody went after anyone's family. If you solicit donations to fund a criminal act, you lose access to the money you raise. This is a thing that happens in normal crime too. Its not just an emergency act thing. People forget that many of the protestors who lost banking access wasn't due to the emergency act, but because one pissed off ottawa resident sued them in civil court and obtained a court order to that affect.

MattGaiser 2y ago

Or the ones in Coutts with guns and a pipe bomb.

catgary 2y ago
Yeah are we forgetting Alberta truckers who were planning to murder RCMP officers, and were straight-up terrorists?
- gadders 2y ago
  The thing they were found not guilty of? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/anthony-olienick-chris-carbert-protesters-not-guilty-murder-conspiracy-rcmp-1.7284629 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/anthony-olienick-chri...
  - CamelCaseName 2y ago
    > But Anthony Olienick and Chris Carbert were both convicted on other charges of mischief and possession of a weapon for a dangerous purpose. Olienick was also convicted of possessing a pipe bomb. > "It was an overcharge to begin with," Beyak said. > He said if police tried to storm the barricade, he would "slit their throats."
    - gadders 2y ago
      So a few of them had guns then?
      - potato3732842 2y ago
        They won't tell you this because the patchwork of regulations makes it literally impossible to do so legally but a very large minority, perhaps brushing up to scant majority depending on where you measure, of truckers in North America pack heat. They're in and out of all sorts of sketchy places all the time, never have local knowledge and would be insanely easy pickings for various types of career criminals if they (as a class of people) were not a risky target.

eastbound 2y ago

> effectively holding our economy hostage This is what a protest is. (French here). If protesters go as far, and in Canada it was because you did them dirty, then you must sit at a table and negotiate. You must sit at a table and negotiate with everyone in a country. You cannot do someone dirty then complain that they protest. It’s effects removing the right to protest, and therefore, removing democracy itself. Go live in Singapore?

lamontcg 2y ago
I mean, the South in the US waged a really big protest because they wanted slaves, and we murdered each other enough that they sort of changed their mind. Not every political grievance is on the right side of history.
- B1FF_PSUVM 2y ago
  > the right side of history. A particularly odious moral framework, mostly used to justify mass murder.
  - tlss 2y ago
    Everyone thinks they're on the right side of history :)
    - lamontcg 2y ago
      I guess it's time for slavery again, then.
alext5 2y ago
Please, disagreeing on a topic and providing arguments is one thing, but suggesting somebody go live in another country because you don’t agree with them on something that happened in their country is disrespectful.
throw0101d 2y ago
> This is what a protest is. They became occupiers when they started living in their trucks. There is no right to occupy in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. If they had slow-rolled their trucks to create traffic jams that is a protest and would have been quite another thing (but also generally illegal, e.g., Ontario Highway Traffic Act §132). If you don't like what the government is doing elect a new government: that's what elections are for. You don't get to throw a hissy fit and mess up other people's lives and livelihood every time there's a decision you don't like. Every society is about balancing the rights of the individual and the rights of the collective, and their responsibilities as well. About balancing of different rights when they are in opposition to each other.

ungreased0675 2y ago

That logic seems like it would outlaw labor strikes too, especially in important industries. Sometimes, holding the economy hostage is the point. I take exception to the framing of “attempts to settle this.” The government used violence and threat of violence to make the problem go away. There wasn’t an attempt at compromise. Do what I say or else isn’t an attempt to settle.

segasaturn 2y ago
The recent postal strikes in Canada are an example of the situation you're describing. Eventually the federal government had to step in and break the strike to get the mail system moving again - if the workers refused to comply, against the orders of the government, I actually think strong measures like the freezing of bank accounts would be warranted and supported by most Canadians.
- gruez 2y ago
  >I actually think strong measures like the freezing of bank accounts would be warranted and supported by most Canadians. Typically such measures are mandated by court order, not executive fiat.
- ungreased0675 2y ago
  The government should be able to force people to work under worse conditions and less pay they want to? That’s ok if most Canadians support it? Really? I hope you can appreciate just how dangerous this sounds, even if you think my slippery slope has a lot of traction on it.
roncesvalles 2y ago
Except it wasn't a labour strike.
- gruez 2y ago
  That's how analogies are supposed to work. How do you expect civil society to function if people only supported civil disobedience when it's their preferred cause?

freedomben 2y ago

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about labor strikes? If customs, border control, longshoremen, or some other union decided to strike and picket would you support having the feds declare them terrorists and doing the banking thing?

kennyloginz 2y ago
If they blocked travel arteries like highways and bridges for more than a hour or two.

Khaine 2y ago

Stop Oil glue themselves to the road in cities as a protest, disrupting the economic output of major cities. They haven't been treated like a terrorist organisation. By your logic they should be.

cmrdporcupine 2y ago
Actually the Harper gov't passed laws when in power that enabled them to treat such protests against fossil fuels as terrorist or threat-to-national-security events. And pipeline blocking protests in BC saw fairly heavy handed police intervention under the Trudeau govt. Those blockades were cleared by the RCMP, quite aggressively, something which the police basically refused to do for the convoy protest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Canadian_pipeline_and_railway_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Canadian_pipeline_and_rai... I don't think it's really that cut and dry of a comparison in favour of your argument. Oil and gas protests in Canada have been treated more aggressively than the convoy was.