5 ms·

Invert the class format: Homework should be done in class on pencil/paper or locked down Chromebooks, and lectures can be watched on video at home.

by wumeow 2y ago

Carrok 2y ago
Or just do everything in class. Out of class work should go away entirely.
- dr_dshiv 2y ago
  But then how will kids learn to use ChatGPT?
  - timeon 2y ago
    There is not much special to learn if you already know how to write and think.
burkaman 2y ago
This was already a good idea even before LLMs, and it has been tried a bit in the US (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flipped_classroom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flipped_classroom). Maybe it just happens to fit my personal learning style, but I think it would encourage collaboration, help teachers more accurately assess how students are doing, help students who don't have a good home environment to get work done, it's easier to self-motivate yourself to watch a lecture at home than to actively do homework, etc. I would love to see this tried at a larger scale and studied to see if it actually works any better.
- fn-mote 2y ago
  I know this method works for some people, but it isn't consistent with the way I have observed that people learn. I used to watch Veritasium [1] videos (way back) that vividly illustrated that even when told the correct information, people would not change their world view but instead give answers consistent with their pre-teaching naive views. Learning is complex. If all that a "teacher" is doing is lecturing, then a video might be a reasonable replacement. Even when the content is straightforward, my observation is that engagement with videos are awful. Heck, engagement in a lecture is awful, but at least the (human) teacher in the room can reasonably be expected to do things to engage the audience and probe their understanding. Some of that might be possible in a video format, for 5x the effort; follow up with examples if you know good ones. I know in the MIT OCW I have seen recordings of discussion sections (very effective), and that should be the bottom of the barrel as far as engagement when "honestly trying to engage learners". You would be better off just trying to do the work, then looking up the information needed. That kind of works, and I bet that's what happens in the flipped classroom model. (Maybe 20% of the class watched the video? Stats welcome.) I'm really just trying to point out that learning is complex. There's supposed to be a national What Works Clearinghouse [2], but I had a hard time finding useful information there. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/@veritasium https://www.youtube.com/@veritasium [2]: https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/ https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/
itishappy 2y ago
Repetition alone was hard enough, but if I was responsible for learning the material at my own pace on my own device as well? I'd still be in middle school.
- hooli_gan 2y ago
  Yeah this did not work for me in college and it certainly would not have worked in school for me

Invert the class format: Homework should be done in class on pencil/paper or locked down Chromebooks, and lectures can be watched on video at home.

by wumeow 2y ago

Invert the class format: Homework should be done in class on pencil/paper or locked down Chromebooks, and lectures can be watched on video at home.

Carrok 2y ago

Or just do everything in class. Out of class work should go away entirely.

dr_dshiv 2y ago
But then how will kids learn to use ChatGPT?
- timeon 2y ago
  There is not much special to learn if you already know how to write and think.

burkaman 2y ago

This was already a good idea even before LLMs, and it has been tried a bit in the US (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flipped_classroom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flipped_classroom). Maybe it just happens to fit my personal learning style, but I think it would encourage collaboration, help teachers more accurately assess how students are doing, help students who don't have a good home environment to get work done, it's easier to self-motivate yourself to watch a lecture at home than to actively do homework, etc. I would love to see this tried at a larger scale and studied to see if it actually works any better.

fn-mote 2y ago
I know this method works for some people, but it isn't consistent with the way I have observed that people learn. I used to watch Veritasium [1] videos (way back) that vividly illustrated that even when told the correct information, people would not change their world view but instead give answers consistent with their pre-teaching naive views. Learning is complex. If all that a "teacher" is doing is lecturing, then a video might be a reasonable replacement. Even when the content is straightforward, my observation is that engagement with videos are awful. Heck, engagement in a lecture is awful, but at least the (human) teacher in the room can reasonably be expected to do things to engage the audience and probe their understanding. Some of that might be possible in a video format, for 5x the effort; follow up with examples if you know good ones. I know in the MIT OCW I have seen recordings of discussion sections (very effective), and that should be the bottom of the barrel as far as engagement when "honestly trying to engage learners". You would be better off just trying to do the work, then looking up the information needed. That kind of works, and I bet that's what happens in the flipped classroom model. (Maybe 20% of the class watched the video? Stats welcome.) I'm really just trying to point out that learning is complex. There's supposed to be a national What Works Clearinghouse [2], but I had a hard time finding useful information there. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/@veritasium https://www.youtube.com/@veritasium [2]: https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/ https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/

itishappy 2y ago

Repetition alone was hard enough, but if I was responsible for learning the material at my own pace on my own device as well? I'd still be in middle school.

hooli_gan 2y ago
Yeah this did not work for me in college and it certainly would not have worked in school for me