> If there is a good culture and collaboration the infrastructure as code, the advocates, etc will come naturally. People will find a way to collaborate. But no

> If there is a good culture and collaboration the infrastructure as code, the advocates, etc will come naturally. People will find a way to collaborate. But not the other way around, these won't fix the culture. Sure I'll agree that DevOps is a culture change. You're right that exposing everything as code does not, in and of itself, get people to start having discussions around code or proposing changes to the code. If people are used to the only way to something getting done is by waiting for meetings and opening tickets, then the fact that every team has code in a pipeline doesn't inherently change that. But without ensuring that the code is there first, you cannot enable the cultural change; it is the fact that the code is available is what makes possible an expectation from management to first go look at the code and try to understand it and have discussions around the code and even propose changes to code outside of your domain. Without the code exposed, you can have very "collaborative" cultures. They look like people whose calendars are booked straight through for weeks, where they spend the whole meeting trying to get their heads aligned, sometimes going over basic details, where at the end, hopefully, you get a ticket opened for them or their team. You spend so much time collaborating that nobody actually has any time to get anything done.