4 ms·

Apple has started going downhill from the time they released Vision Pro. So that means all of the big tech companies are going down: Facebook, Google, Apple.

Apple has started going downhill from the time they released Vision Pro. So that means all of the big tech companies are going down: Facebook, Google, Apple. Only Microsoft remains strong though for how much longer remains to be seen. A great time for startups.

dismalaf 2y ago
Is Microsoft that strong? They've got a stranglehold on medium to large businesses but that's about it. Very few people actually want to use their products, they just think they have to... But yes, it's a great time for startups. I'd argue it always is and always has been.
- ripped_britches 2y ago
  > that’s about it Just 3 trillion or so dollars, that’s about it
  - dismalaf 2y ago
    All the companies the parent was talking about have similarly massive valuations, yet none seem to have unassailable positions. Which is what the whole thread seems to be about (Apple squandering an opportunity and naturally others who are doing the same), not their current market cap.
    - adamc 2y ago
      There are a very large number of steam games that were written for Windows. There are similarly large numbers of commercial products with value for particular companies. Could they be emulated? Sure. Maybe not 100% (see Linux), but mostly yes. But then you have to make that work, ensure that the emulations keep working, etc. That is the real wall around Windows. Office has similar walls -- large numbers of spreadsheets, for example, many of which are critical and which do complex things. There are lots of programs that can read Excel spreadsheets, but perfect compatibility is difficult. And there are lots of people who know these products -- re-educating them is a secondary wall, because it represents a lot of work for the customers.
      - dismalaf 2y ago
        Oh I know all about the Excel wall... It's hard to convince boomers there's something better because it's all they know but when I was in university most of my professors only accepted Google Sheets/Docs documents lol. Microsoft cloud syncing is absolutely atrocious and when people pass around Excel spreadsheets they inevitably get messed up or half the information is lost because there's no single source of truth that everyone adds to. One can argue Google Docs probably isn't technically better but collaboration is 100x easier. > large numbers of spreadsheets, for example, many of which are critical and which do complex things And which all need to be rewritten into database backed apps, IMO. > There are a very large number of steam games that were written for Windows. There are similarly large numbers of commercial products with value for particular companies. Could they be emulated? Sure. Maybe not 100% (see Linux), but mostly yes. But then you have to make that work, ensure that the emulations keep working, etc. Wine and Proton do an excellent job at emulating to keep old binaries alive. For new apps, Android and iOS are now enormous markets. Consoles are huge. Windows gaming is big enough, but I don't think targeting only Windows is worthwhile. Is it really more difficult to use SDL + Vulkan (or insert any other multi-platform graphics API) versus Windows APIs + D3D12? When everyone is building for multiple platforms it makes that moat a lot thinner... For me, the success of the Steam Deck shows that "desktop" Linux can be successful, can be used by the masses. Game companies are even tweaking their games to work better on Proton or straight up porting them, very few are philosophically Windows-only. And remember how Android absolutely destroyed Windows Phone even though Microsoft bought the largest cell phone manufacturer in the world... Not saying it will happen to Windows but I think it's a possibility...
        adamc 2y ago
        You might see a need, but it isn't going to happen, especially in small and medium sized businesses. Wine and Proton work for many things, but far from everything. Plenty of games don't work well on the Steam Deck. Ergo, Windows isn't in any near-term danger. As far as Android and iOS being markets, sure. So what? It doesn't threaten Microsoft that there are additional markets.
        2y ago
- leptons 2y ago
  Apple wishes they had anything close to Windows (or Android's) market share. Yes, people want PCs because a lot of software just won't run on Apple hardware, and Apple hardware is too expensive.
- timomaxgalvin 2y ago
  Nothing comes close to Microsoft Excel. It's bizarre to be honest how bad the competition is in core business applications.
FreePalestine1 2y ago
Doomposting aside, why do you actually think all these companies are going downhill? I think they're all doing pretty well at the moment.
- ripped_britches 2y ago
  Yea I mean they are financially doing better than any group of companies at any time in human history, kind of like the exact opposite of this downhill claim Even with Googles monopoly legal issues, they are more valuable than ever.
karlgkk 2y ago
You know, there’s a lot to be said about this topic, but…. “Microsoft is strong”???? Lmao
- ghaff 2y ago
  Outside of various bubbles, Microsoft still dominates desktop computing and Azure has pretty strong market share itself. I actually find it fairly remarkable that, in spite of the Windows OS not mattering as much any longer--especially on the server--and Microsoft absolutely tanking in mobile, the company is still very strong and relevant.

dismalaf 2y ago

Is Microsoft that strong? They've got a stranglehold on medium to large businesses but that's about it. Very few people actually want to use their products, they just think they have to... But yes, it's a great time for startups. I'd argue it always is and always has been.

ripped_britches 2y ago
> that’s about it Just 3 trillion or so dollars, that’s about it
- dismalaf 2y ago
  All the companies the parent was talking about have similarly massive valuations, yet none seem to have unassailable positions. Which is what the whole thread seems to be about (Apple squandering an opportunity and naturally others who are doing the same), not their current market cap.
  - adamc 2y ago
    There are a very large number of steam games that were written for Windows. There are similarly large numbers of commercial products with value for particular companies. Could they be emulated? Sure. Maybe not 100% (see Linux), but mostly yes. But then you have to make that work, ensure that the emulations keep working, etc. That is the real wall around Windows. Office has similar walls -- large numbers of spreadsheets, for example, many of which are critical and which do complex things. There are lots of programs that can read Excel spreadsheets, but perfect compatibility is difficult. And there are lots of people who know these products -- re-educating them is a secondary wall, because it represents a lot of work for the customers.
    - dismalaf 2y ago
      Oh I know all about the Excel wall... It's hard to convince boomers there's something better because it's all they know but when I was in university most of my professors only accepted Google Sheets/Docs documents lol. Microsoft cloud syncing is absolutely atrocious and when people pass around Excel spreadsheets they inevitably get messed up or half the information is lost because there's no single source of truth that everyone adds to. One can argue Google Docs probably isn't technically better but collaboration is 100x easier. > large numbers of spreadsheets, for example, many of which are critical and which do complex things And which all need to be rewritten into database backed apps, IMO. > There are a very large number of steam games that were written for Windows. There are similarly large numbers of commercial products with value for particular companies. Could they be emulated? Sure. Maybe not 100% (see Linux), but mostly yes. But then you have to make that work, ensure that the emulations keep working, etc. Wine and Proton do an excellent job at emulating to keep old binaries alive. For new apps, Android and iOS are now enormous markets. Consoles are huge. Windows gaming is big enough, but I don't think targeting only Windows is worthwhile. Is it really more difficult to use SDL + Vulkan (or insert any other multi-platform graphics API) versus Windows APIs + D3D12? When everyone is building for multiple platforms it makes that moat a lot thinner... For me, the success of the Steam Deck shows that "desktop" Linux can be successful, can be used by the masses. Game companies are even tweaking their games to work better on Proton or straight up porting them, very few are philosophically Windows-only. And remember how Android absolutely destroyed Windows Phone even though Microsoft bought the largest cell phone manufacturer in the world... Not saying it will happen to Windows but I think it's a possibility...
      - adamc 2y ago
        You might see a need, but it isn't going to happen, especially in small and medium sized businesses. Wine and Proton work for many things, but far from everything. Plenty of games don't work well on the Steam Deck. Ergo, Windows isn't in any near-term danger. As far as Android and iOS being markets, sure. So what? It doesn't threaten Microsoft that there are additional markets.
        2y ago
leptons 2y ago
Apple wishes they had anything close to Windows (or Android's) market share. Yes, people want PCs because a lot of software just won't run on Apple hardware, and Apple hardware is too expensive.
timomaxgalvin 2y ago
Nothing comes close to Microsoft Excel. It's bizarre to be honest how bad the competition is in core business applications.

FreePalestine1 2y ago

Doomposting aside, why do you actually think all these companies are going downhill? I think they're all doing pretty well at the moment.

ripped_britches 2y ago
Yea I mean they are financially doing better than any group of companies at any time in human history, kind of like the exact opposite of this downhill claim Even with Googles monopoly legal issues, they are more valuable than ever.

karlgkk 2y ago

You know, there’s a lot to be said about this topic, but…. “Microsoft is strong”???? Lmao

ghaff 2y ago
Outside of various bubbles, Microsoft still dominates desktop computing and Azure has pretty strong market share itself. I actually find it fairly remarkable that, in spite of the Windows OS not mattering as much any longer--especially on the server--and Microsoft absolutely tanking in mobile, the company is still very strong and relevant.