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I had not seen this when it was released (2015). Refrigeration can be costly if you are on a budget, and can be a non marginal factor in the total expenditures

I had not seen this when it was released (2015). Refrigeration can be costly if you are on a budget, and can be a non marginal factor in the total expenditures. Other ways to save are: - buy large bags of rice, flour, lentils, which last for a long time. - forage mushrooms (they're online communities for this), or grow. - grow vegetables and fruit. Lettuce, tomatoes, strawberries are easy to grow. - hunt or buy an animal, get it butchered and store it in a freezer. - farm animals.

thfuran 2y ago
In the US, it's hard to be on such a budget that the energy cost of refrigeration is a major factor in food costs unless you have a really old fridge. A modern fridge probably costs less than $5 a month to operate. There are places with cheaper food and more expensive electricity though.
- 29athrowaway 2y ago
  A french door refrigerator with ice maker costs about $25 per month to run. If your budget is $2.50 per day for food (or $3.30 adjusted for inflation) that's significant.
  - thfuran 2y ago
    >A french door refrigerator with ice maker costs about $25 per month to run. Maybe if you bought it in 2005.
  - jogjayr 2y ago
    > A french door refrigerator with ice maker costs about $25 per month to run Which one?
  - zahlman 2y ago
    If your budget is $2.50 per day for food then you are probably looking for much cheaper options for a refrigerator. I understand it's possible to buy small chest freezers and convert them to run at fridge temperatures and they're very efficient that way.
  - tonyedgecombe 2y ago
    >A french door refrigerator ... I'm guessing that American refrigerators are like American cars?
  - hombre_fatal 2y ago
    Of course, if you were trying to save money, you would get a chest-style fridge where all of the cold air doesn't fall out every time you open the door.
nverno 2y ago
Foraging enough mushrooms to provide any real sustenance sounds like a real challenge (except for fall in the northwest).
- 29athrowaway 2y ago
  I have heard a dog can be used to find them more effectively, but they cannot tell if a mushroom is toxic.
  - nverno 2y ago
    It's not something I've ever seen, but I certainly believe it given their incredible noses. And of course pigs are often used for truffle hunting. If you are gathering mushrooms to eat, it's not too hard to learn which are toxic anyway. Once you know where patches are (at least for mycorrhizal fungi which are some of the best) it is easy to go back and get them each year. But, it still takes time to find all the locations and there is competition from other foragers, humans as well as other animals.
    - sva_ 2y ago
      During a hike I met a guy who said he was hunting for truffles underground with the help of his dog.
    - globular-toast 2y ago
      > And of course pigs are often used for truffle hunting. Actually this is a bit of a myth. Pigs aren't very good truffle hunters. Dogs are used to find truffles. I suspect this is what the GP was thinking of.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
- bagels 2y ago
  That is an understatement. Mushrooms are one of the least calorie dense foods. It'd take something like 20 lbs. of mushrooms to hit 2000 calories.
wtmt 2y ago
> Refrigeration can be costly if you are on a budget, and can be a non marginal factor in the total expenditures. > Other ways to save are: > - buy large bags of rice, flour, lentils, which last for a long time. If you’re living in a place where the general weather is quite cold, you may be able to manage this. But in all other places, buying large bags of rice, flour and lentils is a recipe for infestation by insects (rice would have rice weevil eggs in it). Buy large enough bags that you’re sure you can consume within a month, and you may probably be able to avoid infestation. The other option would be to get foods that are heavily sprayed with insecticides, which is likely to be bad for one’s health.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  No, the other option is to store your stuff in airtight jars. Though frankly, we just leave big bags of rice out, open, in a kitchen in California, and weevils have never infested it.
  - dredmorbius 2y ago
    Grain pests (worms, moths, etc.) are often in the packaged goods at the store, and once introduced to your home are all but impossible to exterminate. Airtight jars will only contain the pests within a single jar, not avoid them entirely. If you're buying grain in large quantities, you can freeze it (in batches if necessary) for a day or so, after which you can keep it in those airtight jars. Large-scale de-pesting can be done with dry ice (floods the container with CO2 gas, asphixiating pests. US-domestic / EU-domestic goods are generally fairly reliably moth-free. I've had issues with imported products from elsewhere.
brnt 2y ago
Cooking costs is more important. I saw an interview with a poor Brit a year or two ago, who had an electricity meter which took coins. He said the main reason to eat microwave meals is the energy cost: a few minutes of microwave is far cheaper than half an hour of cooking plate or an hour of oven.
- BigGreenJorts 2y ago
  I didn't realize microwaves were so energy efficient. I wonder how rice cookers compare bc on a budget, that'd be my cooking implement since they also require no supervision.
  - geowwy 2y ago
    Microwaves directly heat the food so there's not much heat loss. Rice cookers lose a lot of energy by escaped steam and heat radiating out of the pot.
  - brnt 2y ago
    A microwave meal is prepared, it just needs to be warmed up. Cooking usually requires one to transform matter somehow, which takes longer or requires a few steps. Plus, as said, much energy is lost one the stove or oven. E.g. boiling a pot of rice (most energy lost on evaporating water) on gas (more than half of all energy shoots out from under the pot directly into the extractor) is, apart from not just heating the rice but also speeding up the absorption of water, wasting a lot. I actually make it a low key sport to use my stovetop efficiently (switching to induction is one!).
- swiftcoder 2y ago
  Coin fed electricity meters are some sort of hate crime in and of itself
  - brnt 2y ago
    I agree, but it does give one pause to consider those costs as well.
- 2y ago
AngryData 2y ago
I would also be looking at the energy cost of cooking dried beans everyone recommends because they are cheap. A decent refrigerator is incredibly efficient thanks to operating on a heat pump, but cooking is certainly not energy efficient, and many cheap dried beans require hours to properly cook. I wouldn't be surprised if the cooking of cheap beans ended up costing more than the beans themself.
- hombre_fatal 2y ago
  It's kinda hearing this when the most impoverished people in other parts of the world just make a fire. Yet the only socially acceptable place for me to harvest wood + make a fire where I live in Texas is to drive out into the woods. I can't even walk there from where I am.

thfuran 2y ago

In the US, it's hard to be on such a budget that the energy cost of refrigeration is a major factor in food costs unless you have a really old fridge. A modern fridge probably costs less than $5 a month to operate. There are places with cheaper food and more expensive electricity though.

29athrowaway 2y ago
A french door refrigerator with ice maker costs about $25 per month to run. If your budget is $2.50 per day for food (or $3.30 adjusted for inflation) that's significant.
- thfuran 2y ago
  >A french door refrigerator with ice maker costs about $25 per month to run. Maybe if you bought it in 2005.
- jogjayr 2y ago
  > A french door refrigerator with ice maker costs about $25 per month to run Which one?
- zahlman 2y ago
  If your budget is $2.50 per day for food then you are probably looking for much cheaper options for a refrigerator. I understand it's possible to buy small chest freezers and convert them to run at fridge temperatures and they're very efficient that way.
- tonyedgecombe 2y ago
  >A french door refrigerator ... I'm guessing that American refrigerators are like American cars?
- hombre_fatal 2y ago
  Of course, if you were trying to save money, you would get a chest-style fridge where all of the cold air doesn't fall out every time you open the door.

nverno 2y ago

Foraging enough mushrooms to provide any real sustenance sounds like a real challenge (except for fall in the northwest).

29athrowaway 2y ago
I have heard a dog can be used to find them more effectively, but they cannot tell if a mushroom is toxic.
- nverno 2y ago
  It's not something I've ever seen, but I certainly believe it given their incredible noses. And of course pigs are often used for truffle hunting. If you are gathering mushrooms to eat, it's not too hard to learn which are toxic anyway. Once you know where patches are (at least for mycorrhizal fungi which are some of the best) it is easy to go back and get them each year. But, it still takes time to find all the locations and there is competition from other foragers, humans as well as other animals.
  - sva_ 2y ago
    During a hike I met a guy who said he was hunting for truffles underground with the help of his dog.
  - globular-toast 2y ago
    > And of course pigs are often used for truffle hunting. Actually this is a bit of a myth. Pigs aren't very good truffle hunters. Dogs are used to find truffles. I suspect this is what the GP was thinking of.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
bagels 2y ago
That is an understatement. Mushrooms are one of the least calorie dense foods. It'd take something like 20 lbs. of mushrooms to hit 2000 calories.

wtmt 2y ago

> Refrigeration can be costly if you are on a budget, and can be a non marginal factor in the total expenditures. > Other ways to save are: > - buy large bags of rice, flour, lentils, which last for a long time. If you’re living in a place where the general weather is quite cold, you may be able to manage this. But in all other places, buying large bags of rice, flour and lentils is a recipe for infestation by insects (rice would have rice weevil eggs in it). Buy large enough bags that you’re sure you can consume within a month, and you may probably be able to avoid infestation. The other option would be to get foods that are heavily sprayed with insecticides, which is likely to be bad for one’s health.

thaumasiotes 2y ago
No, the other option is to store your stuff in airtight jars. Though frankly, we just leave big bags of rice out, open, in a kitchen in California, and weevils have never infested it.
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  Grain pests (worms, moths, etc.) are often in the packaged goods at the store, and once introduced to your home are all but impossible to exterminate. Airtight jars will only contain the pests within a single jar, not avoid them entirely. If you're buying grain in large quantities, you can freeze it (in batches if necessary) for a day or so, after which you can keep it in those airtight jars. Large-scale de-pesting can be done with dry ice (floods the container with CO2 gas, asphixiating pests. US-domestic / EU-domestic goods are generally fairly reliably moth-free. I've had issues with imported products from elsewhere.

brnt 2y ago

Cooking costs is more important. I saw an interview with a poor Brit a year or two ago, who had an electricity meter which took coins. He said the main reason to eat microwave meals is the energy cost: a few minutes of microwave is far cheaper than half an hour of cooking plate or an hour of oven.

BigGreenJorts 2y ago
I didn't realize microwaves were so energy efficient. I wonder how rice cookers compare bc on a budget, that'd be my cooking implement since they also require no supervision.
- geowwy 2y ago
  Microwaves directly heat the food so there's not much heat loss. Rice cookers lose a lot of energy by escaped steam and heat radiating out of the pot.
- brnt 2y ago
  A microwave meal is prepared, it just needs to be warmed up. Cooking usually requires one to transform matter somehow, which takes longer or requires a few steps. Plus, as said, much energy is lost one the stove or oven. E.g. boiling a pot of rice (most energy lost on evaporating water) on gas (more than half of all energy shoots out from under the pot directly into the extractor) is, apart from not just heating the rice but also speeding up the absorption of water, wasting a lot. I actually make it a low key sport to use my stovetop efficiently (switching to induction is one!).
swiftcoder 2y ago
Coin fed electricity meters are some sort of hate crime in and of itself
- brnt 2y ago
  I agree, but it does give one pause to consider those costs as well.
2y ago

AngryData 2y ago

I would also be looking at the energy cost of cooking dried beans everyone recommends because they are cheap. A decent refrigerator is incredibly efficient thanks to operating on a heat pump, but cooking is certainly not energy efficient, and many cheap dried beans require hours to properly cook. I wouldn't be surprised if the cooking of cheap beans ended up costing more than the beans themself.

hombre_fatal 2y ago
It's kinda hearing this when the most impoverished people in other parts of the world just make a fire. Yet the only socially acceptable place for me to harvest wood + make a fire where I live in Texas is to drive out into the woods. I can't even walk there from where I am.