4 ms·

I thought this was going to be a post about AI, but it’s about what might have been an interesting question in 5 BC (before chatgpt) It’s entirely possible tha

I thought this was going to be a post about AI, but it’s about what might have been an interesting question in 5 BC (before chatgpt) It’s entirely possible that what we’re doing now is the last project we’ll all work on (I’m planning ten years on this project) Rather than debate that, let’s just make our current projects as awesome as possible

baron816 2y ago
Am I the only one who hopes my current job is my last job and AI will more or less wipe out software engineering as a profession by decade’s end? I love my job, but I can’t see myself doing it for the rest of my life. I have greater ambitions than that, and what’s stopping me from pursuing them is that implementation of big things is really hard. If AI makes implementation much easier, then that makes pursuing those things really worthwhile.
- tekno45 2y ago
  do hard things.
- friend_Fernando 2y ago
  We can name the professions that won't eventually be wiped out, but not a lot of them are suited (or palatable) to middle-aged dudes.
- sefrost 2y ago
  I have 20 years left on my mortgage on a one bedroom apartment so I would very much hope this is not my last software engineering job!
- unsnap_biceps 2y ago
  Without software engineering, what exactly do you feel you bring to the table (so to speak). Is there something you have that no one else does? Because, to be blunt, if you don't have that something, why would an AI doing the grunt work help you? Everyone else will have the same advantage. And if you do have that something, why let your day job stop you from tackling it? I just don't understand why AI would change anything fundamentally for you.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    > Without software engineering, what exactly do you feel you bring to the table (so to speak). Is there something you have that no one else does I know how to talk to people, I have 30 years of industry experience and I’m technical and up to date. Other people have that combination of skills but it’s rare enough.
Trasmatta 2y ago
The more I use AI, the more convinced I am that we're nowhere near the point of time where it will take even the majority of dev jobs. Maybe I'm wrong. But I just don't see it. I see it greatly increasing the productivity of developers, and removing the need for certain tasks, but not removing the need for them entirely.
- lamename 2y ago
  I think you're right in the long run, but in the short run all it takes is largely the non-experts and business people to _think_ they can make mass layoffs and "hire" AI for a significant number of people to lose out on the industry.
  - fn-mote 2y ago
    Save more of those big SWE paychecks knowing that doomsday is coming. It’s not, obviously, but I wouldn’t want to be in the bottom 50% … you can end up being the person who fixes the LLM-generated code but that’s awful. Just like there are lots of layoffs now, but also many areas of new growth, it’s hard to imagine how the opportunities will evaporate. Stay flexible and don’t drink the “end of the dev” kool-aid. Don’t paint yourself into a corner - especially not a corner that is ripe for LLM-efficiency takeover.
- timrichard 2y ago
  I agree with you. I’ve been using Cursor for a month or two, as it’s a great speedup and a big step forward in DX. I’ve also been periodically browsing r/cursor, to see if I can pick up any workflow tips. I can see a clear distinction between fellow devs using it as a powerful coding tool (as intended), and the no-code folks trying to use it as an application generator. A few of the latter have some success and showcase the things they’ve built, but the majority who post on the subreddit vent similar frustrations : - Trying to build an app one tab press at a time without understanding the code, so unable to fix inevitable problems when chat is unable to. - Relying heavily on the Composer or Agent features, which sometimes merrily erases chunks of code or entire files. Unable to recover work because unaware of Local History or VCS. - Running out of fast response credits because 500 are bundled per month. The ideal workflow is to give harder things to Claude or O1, and delegate easier things to gpt4o-mini (which is unmetered). But that only helps if you know which tasks are harder or easier.
ksenzee 2y ago
When I hear comments like this, I'm always curious what kind of work the commenter does. None of what I do is predictable enough that a project manager could even come up with a good enough prompt. I'm frequently evaluating open-source code to see if it meets our needs, patching it and submitting fixes upstream if it's close, or writing something custom if it's not (and then potentially open-sourcing that, if it's useful). AI can't do any of that.
- paulsutter 2y ago
  I’m building full-factory automation, the master control system needed for the Optimus/droid future. You guys are too focused on whether AI can code. The story is much much bigger than that.
  - ksenzee 2y ago
    No, my entire point is that most of what I do is not coding. Even if LLMs could output correct code, they still can't do software engineering. > the master control system needed for the Optimus/droid future all righty then.
spicyusername 2y ago
I think we are far, far, far away from LLMs taking away engineering jobs.
cwalv 2y ago
Even if AI gets to the point where I can lazily describe any software project I want and it will make it for me, even better than I described it, I'm 100% sure that nothing will stop me from moving on to other projects short of death/being incapacitated. I doubt AI will be getting to that point in my lifetime, but if it did, it would be amazing
- shortrounddev2 2y ago
  If AI got to that point in my lifetime I'd quit software engineering. That sounds like a fucking mind numbing job. I'd go be a goat farmer or something before I become a professional chat bot chatter
  - cwalv 2y ago
    Most of software engineering (differentiating from programming) is just iterating on a model of a problem space in enough detail that computers can be applied to automate a lot of the drudgery. Software is nowhere close to done "eating the world". I see endless opportunities to apply software to remove drudgery; anything that helps me do that faster is a win.
    - shortrounddev2 2y ago
      Everyone has a level of abstraction they're comfortable with. I enjoy working in C++, and I tolerate working in Javascript for work. I wouldn't be good at writing assembly, and I would dread talking to chatbots to tell them what code to write. I enjoy solving problems, not describing them to chatbots.
      - cwalv 2y ago
        IMO it's hardly more of a stretch to say that your C++ compiler is just an obtuse chatbot. If it doesn't complain with template error vomit, you understand its response is 'done'. Otherwise, it's chatting back the errors of your ways.

baron816 2y ago

Am I the only one who hopes my current job is my last job and AI will more or less wipe out software engineering as a profession by decade’s end? I love my job, but I can’t see myself doing it for the rest of my life. I have greater ambitions than that, and what’s stopping me from pursuing them is that implementation of big things is really hard. If AI makes implementation much easier, then that makes pursuing those things really worthwhile.

tekno45 2y ago
do hard things.
friend_Fernando 2y ago
We can name the professions that won't eventually be wiped out, but not a lot of them are suited (or palatable) to middle-aged dudes.
sefrost 2y ago
I have 20 years left on my mortgage on a one bedroom apartment so I would very much hope this is not my last software engineering job!
unsnap_biceps 2y ago
Without software engineering, what exactly do you feel you bring to the table (so to speak). Is there something you have that no one else does? Because, to be blunt, if you don't have that something, why would an AI doing the grunt work help you? Everyone else will have the same advantage. And if you do have that something, why let your day job stop you from tackling it? I just don't understand why AI would change anything fundamentally for you.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  > Without software engineering, what exactly do you feel you bring to the table (so to speak). Is there something you have that no one else does I know how to talk to people, I have 30 years of industry experience and I’m technical and up to date. Other people have that combination of skills but it’s rare enough.

Trasmatta 2y ago

The more I use AI, the more convinced I am that we're nowhere near the point of time where it will take even the majority of dev jobs. Maybe I'm wrong. But I just don't see it. I see it greatly increasing the productivity of developers, and removing the need for certain tasks, but not removing the need for them entirely.

lamename 2y ago
I think you're right in the long run, but in the short run all it takes is largely the non-experts and business people to _think_ they can make mass layoffs and "hire" AI for a significant number of people to lose out on the industry.
- fn-mote 2y ago
  Save more of those big SWE paychecks knowing that doomsday is coming. It’s not, obviously, but I wouldn’t want to be in the bottom 50% … you can end up being the person who fixes the LLM-generated code but that’s awful. Just like there are lots of layoffs now, but also many areas of new growth, it’s hard to imagine how the opportunities will evaporate. Stay flexible and don’t drink the “end of the dev” kool-aid. Don’t paint yourself into a corner - especially not a corner that is ripe for LLM-efficiency takeover.
timrichard 2y ago
I agree with you. I’ve been using Cursor for a month or two, as it’s a great speedup and a big step forward in DX. I’ve also been periodically browsing r/cursor, to see if I can pick up any workflow tips. I can see a clear distinction between fellow devs using it as a powerful coding tool (as intended), and the no-code folks trying to use it as an application generator. A few of the latter have some success and showcase the things they’ve built, but the majority who post on the subreddit vent similar frustrations : - Trying to build an app one tab press at a time without understanding the code, so unable to fix inevitable problems when chat is unable to. - Relying heavily on the Composer or Agent features, which sometimes merrily erases chunks of code or entire files. Unable to recover work because unaware of Local History or VCS. - Running out of fast response credits because 500 are bundled per month. The ideal workflow is to give harder things to Claude or O1, and delegate easier things to gpt4o-mini (which is unmetered). But that only helps if you know which tasks are harder or easier.

ksenzee 2y ago

When I hear comments like this, I'm always curious what kind of work the commenter does. None of what I do is predictable enough that a project manager could even come up with a good enough prompt. I'm frequently evaluating open-source code to see if it meets our needs, patching it and submitting fixes upstream if it's close, or writing something custom if it's not (and then potentially open-sourcing that, if it's useful). AI can't do any of that.

paulsutter 2y ago
I’m building full-factory automation, the master control system needed for the Optimus/droid future. You guys are too focused on whether AI can code. The story is much much bigger than that.
- ksenzee 2y ago
  No, my entire point is that most of what I do is not coding. Even if LLMs could output correct code, they still can't do software engineering. > the master control system needed for the Optimus/droid future all righty then.

spicyusername 2y ago

I think we are far, far, far away from LLMs taking away engineering jobs.

cwalv 2y ago

Even if AI gets to the point where I can lazily describe any software project I want and it will make it for me, even better than I described it, I'm 100% sure that nothing will stop me from moving on to other projects short of death/being incapacitated. I doubt AI will be getting to that point in my lifetime, but if it did, it would be amazing

shortrounddev2 2y ago
If AI got to that point in my lifetime I'd quit software engineering. That sounds like a fucking mind numbing job. I'd go be a goat farmer or something before I become a professional chat bot chatter
- cwalv 2y ago
  Most of software engineering (differentiating from programming) is just iterating on a model of a problem space in enough detail that computers can be applied to automate a lot of the drudgery. Software is nowhere close to done "eating the world". I see endless opportunities to apply software to remove drudgery; anything that helps me do that faster is a win.
  - shortrounddev2 2y ago
    Everyone has a level of abstraction they're comfortable with. I enjoy working in C++, and I tolerate working in Javascript for work. I wouldn't be good at writing assembly, and I would dread talking to chatbots to tell them what code to write. I enjoy solving problems, not describing them to chatbots.
    - cwalv 2y ago
      IMO it's hardly more of a stretch to say that your C++ compiler is just an obtuse chatbot. If it doesn't complain with template error vomit, you understand its response is 'done'. Otherwise, it's chatting back the errors of your ways.