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I love what Valve has done to make gaming a better experience, but I can't see everyone just dropping everything to install Linux on their computers. They boug

I love what Valve has done to make gaming a better experience, but I can't see everyone just dropping everything to install Linux on their computers. They bought a Windows laptop, for Windows things... People would rather go to Best Buy and get a new laptop than try something different.

hagbard_c 2y ago
If the old laptop runs the 'windows things' just fine under Linux and word goes around about that old pile of chips suddenly being much faster and less intrusive 'people' might just go around and install Linux or have other people do that for them. It is not Windows people want, it is the software running on the things they want.
- tcmart14 2y ago
  Yes and no. I think at the base, everyone just wants their software to run. The challenge is, people don't want to have to learn anything new to do that. What are most people comfortable with? Windows. Why? It was on their school computers, probably on their parents' computers and most likely on their work computers. I think if schools had their computer labs (if that's still a thing), running Ubuntu 24.04 and taught computer basics on Libreoffice, that is what people would want on their home computers, if they could go to Best Buy and buy a laptop with Ubuntu pre-installed. Maybe over the next 5-10 years we see this change as some schools issue Chromebooks?
  - hagbard_c 2y ago
    The people who are 'used to Windows' will often be none the wiser if they're confronted with a Linux installation which is configured to look like Windows. Windows has many faces going back all the way to Windows 3.1 and many of those faces can show up when clicking around on a 'current' Windows version. This rather inconsistent look and feel means it is fairly easy to create something which more or less looks and acts like Windows in the eyes of those 'used to Windows' since they're used to things sometimes looking out of place. I think Windows is close to the end of being ubiquitous. The more Microsoft forces online features onto its users, the more those users will see Windows as that thing which launches the browser and with that the easier it will be to get people used to alternatives, especially if those alternatives offer many advantages over whatever Microsoft is peddling under the Windows moniker.
    - weirdal3333 2y ago
      My grandma is currently using Linux Mint with a Windows skin. She doesn't know it's not Windows. Automatic updates run in the background.
      - hagbard_c 2y ago
        My mother - 86 years old - uses Linux (Debian with Mate, default theme), she knows it is Linux but it does not matter since she uses it in the same way as she used Windows 7: as a launcher for Firefox and Thunderbird and occasionally as an interface to her phone so I can help her remotely given that she lives in the Netherlands and I live in Sweden. Apart from Linux being faster and less intrusive there are no real differences as far as she is concerned. She used to click on Firefox and Thunderbird icons on the desktop on Windows 7, now she clicks on Firefox and Thunderbird icons on the desktop on Debian Mate. There are many more people like her who use personal computers in this way and they are much better off running some Linux flavour which is kept up to date, which does not spy on them, which does not try to upsell them, which does not insist on contrived expiry dates after which they need to buy new hardware so as to run the next version of the intrusive spyware called Windows 11/12/...
lukan 2y ago
"They bought a Windows laptop, for Windows things.." Most people bought a laptop - for computer things. Most people don't care for the OS at all. They care if they can do the stuff they want to do. For most it is just browsing and that works mostly the same. But if it is more than browsing, then chances are, they won't be happy with libreoffice or gimp, if they are used to microsoft office and photoshop. Also, the main problem with linux on laptops are still drivers. Standby issues, broken keyboard backlighting, mousepad not working after resume, ... Still, anyone who can make the transition, should make the transition.
- nubinetwork 2y ago
  The point I was trying to make is that they're not going to. That would take effort and learning something new. They just want a working computer, yesterday, and they're not going to waste time with "that Linux thing".
  - gerdesj 2y ago
    My wife rocks Arch. She calls it Facebook and email and internet. On a more serious note, my work intranet wiki page for turning a stock Ubuntu (Kubuntu but I also allow any Ubuntu variant) box into a corporate one is getting quite short these days. It's a lot shorter than the Windows equivalent one. They are hamstrung by the lack of a central software source.
  - registeredcorn 2y ago
    For some, I think it's a bit more fundamental than that. I'll give an example of a conversation with a family member, who bought a used computer a few months ago and claimed it was "broken" (they didn't know where the power button was, and thought the charging cable was wrong (it was USB-C)) Me: "Oh, well since it's used, we should probably do a clean install. I can reinstall Windows for you if you want...but if you're interested, or I could do Linux instead. It works as well as Windows, but if your computer ever breaks, I'm not sure a technician could fix it as easily. It's got different benefits though, and would use this older hardware better." Them: "Oh? But how could you even do that?" Me: "Linux installs are pretty easy. As easy as Windows install." Them: "But isn't this a Windows laptop?" (It was a ThinkPad. Me: "No...it's just a laptop. Your laptop. You're not required to use Windows. You can use whatever you want. You own it." Them: "But how could it have Linux if it already had Windows? I thought this was a 'Windows' laptop? Doesn't this only work with Windows?" Me: "It can have Windows. It could also have Linux, instead. It's just what's installed right now to make the computer work. It's yours to do with as you wish." I could kind of see a look of surprise on their face. It hadn't even occurred to them that they were permitted to install anything but Windows, because they saw it as a "Windows" laptop. Ultimately I ended up reinstalling Windows because they were afraid of dealing with the unknown, as you mentioned.
qwerpy 2y ago
I occasionally use my steam deck as a desktop replacement but I'm always relieved to go back to my windows 10 desktop, for two reasons: 1) No native Onenote app. Nothing else checks all the boxes I need for a note taking app - easy enough for a non techie to use, shared notebooks, mobile apps, easy formatting (i.e. no markdown, etc) 2) A bunch of things are slightly "off". Can't customize mouse scroll wheel behavior, things like sleep/wifi occasionally don't work, other things I've forgotton. I'm resigned to de-shittifying windows 11 when I eventually replace my new desktop.
excalibur 2y ago
> They bought a Windows laptop, for Windows things... People would rather go to Best Buy and get a new laptop than try something different. If they want to go that route and they can afford it, so what? I think the recommendation was for those who want a way to keep their current device functional.
II2II 2y ago
> People would rather go to Best Buy and get a new laptop than try something different. Some people simply don't have that option. Other people may have that option, but would end up with something worse simply because their budget only allows for a hobbled machine. In the past they may have been able to resort to the second-hand market or cast off machines in order to get something much better. Granted, most of these people are also willing to run an unsupported operating system. Perhaps a handful would be willing to jump zealously into Linux.

hagbard_c 2y ago

If the old laptop runs the 'windows things' just fine under Linux and word goes around about that old pile of chips suddenly being much faster and less intrusive 'people' might just go around and install Linux or have other people do that for them. It is not Windows people want, it is the software running on the things they want.

tcmart14 2y ago
Yes and no. I think at the base, everyone just wants their software to run. The challenge is, people don't want to have to learn anything new to do that. What are most people comfortable with? Windows. Why? It was on their school computers, probably on their parents' computers and most likely on their work computers. I think if schools had their computer labs (if that's still a thing), running Ubuntu 24.04 and taught computer basics on Libreoffice, that is what people would want on their home computers, if they could go to Best Buy and buy a laptop with Ubuntu pre-installed. Maybe over the next 5-10 years we see this change as some schools issue Chromebooks?
- hagbard_c 2y ago
  The people who are 'used to Windows' will often be none the wiser if they're confronted with a Linux installation which is configured to look like Windows. Windows has many faces going back all the way to Windows 3.1 and many of those faces can show up when clicking around on a 'current' Windows version. This rather inconsistent look and feel means it is fairly easy to create something which more or less looks and acts like Windows in the eyes of those 'used to Windows' since they're used to things sometimes looking out of place. I think Windows is close to the end of being ubiquitous. The more Microsoft forces online features onto its users, the more those users will see Windows as that thing which launches the browser and with that the easier it will be to get people used to alternatives, especially if those alternatives offer many advantages over whatever Microsoft is peddling under the Windows moniker.
  - weirdal3333 2y ago
    My grandma is currently using Linux Mint with a Windows skin. She doesn't know it's not Windows. Automatic updates run in the background.
    - hagbard_c 2y ago
      My mother - 86 years old - uses Linux (Debian with Mate, default theme), she knows it is Linux but it does not matter since she uses it in the same way as she used Windows 7: as a launcher for Firefox and Thunderbird and occasionally as an interface to her phone so I can help her remotely given that she lives in the Netherlands and I live in Sweden. Apart from Linux being faster and less intrusive there are no real differences as far as she is concerned. She used to click on Firefox and Thunderbird icons on the desktop on Windows 7, now she clicks on Firefox and Thunderbird icons on the desktop on Debian Mate. There are many more people like her who use personal computers in this way and they are much better off running some Linux flavour which is kept up to date, which does not spy on them, which does not try to upsell them, which does not insist on contrived expiry dates after which they need to buy new hardware so as to run the next version of the intrusive spyware called Windows 11/12/...

lukan 2y ago

"They bought a Windows laptop, for Windows things.." Most people bought a laptop - for computer things. Most people don't care for the OS at all. They care if they can do the stuff they want to do. For most it is just browsing and that works mostly the same. But if it is more than browsing, then chances are, they won't be happy with libreoffice or gimp, if they are used to microsoft office and photoshop. Also, the main problem with linux on laptops are still drivers. Standby issues, broken keyboard backlighting, mousepad not working after resume, ... Still, anyone who can make the transition, should make the transition.

nubinetwork 2y ago
The point I was trying to make is that they're not going to. That would take effort and learning something new. They just want a working computer, yesterday, and they're not going to waste time with "that Linux thing".
- gerdesj 2y ago
  My wife rocks Arch. She calls it Facebook and email and internet. On a more serious note, my work intranet wiki page for turning a stock Ubuntu (Kubuntu but I also allow any Ubuntu variant) box into a corporate one is getting quite short these days. It's a lot shorter than the Windows equivalent one. They are hamstrung by the lack of a central software source.
- registeredcorn 2y ago
  For some, I think it's a bit more fundamental than that. I'll give an example of a conversation with a family member, who bought a used computer a few months ago and claimed it was "broken" (they didn't know where the power button was, and thought the charging cable was wrong (it was USB-C)) Me: "Oh, well since it's used, we should probably do a clean install. I can reinstall Windows for you if you want...but if you're interested, or I could do Linux instead. It works as well as Windows, but if your computer ever breaks, I'm not sure a technician could fix it as easily. It's got different benefits though, and would use this older hardware better." Them: "Oh? But how could you even do that?" Me: "Linux installs are pretty easy. As easy as Windows install." Them: "But isn't this a Windows laptop?" (It was a ThinkPad. Me: "No...it's just a laptop. Your laptop. You're not required to use Windows. You can use whatever you want. You own it." Them: "But how could it have Linux if it already had Windows? I thought this was a 'Windows' laptop? Doesn't this only work with Windows?" Me: "It can have Windows. It could also have Linux, instead. It's just what's installed right now to make the computer work. It's yours to do with as you wish." I could kind of see a look of surprise on their face. It hadn't even occurred to them that they were permitted to install anything but Windows, because they saw it as a "Windows" laptop. Ultimately I ended up reinstalling Windows because they were afraid of dealing with the unknown, as you mentioned.

qwerpy 2y ago

I occasionally use my steam deck as a desktop replacement but I'm always relieved to go back to my windows 10 desktop, for two reasons: 1) No native Onenote app. Nothing else checks all the boxes I need for a note taking app - easy enough for a non techie to use, shared notebooks, mobile apps, easy formatting (i.e. no markdown, etc) 2) A bunch of things are slightly "off". Can't customize mouse scroll wheel behavior, things like sleep/wifi occasionally don't work, other things I've forgotton. I'm resigned to de-shittifying windows 11 when I eventually replace my new desktop.

excalibur 2y ago

> They bought a Windows laptop, for Windows things... People would rather go to Best Buy and get a new laptop than try something different. If they want to go that route and they can afford it, so what? I think the recommendation was for those who want a way to keep their current device functional.

II2II 2y ago

> People would rather go to Best Buy and get a new laptop than try something different. Some people simply don't have that option. Other people may have that option, but would end up with something worse simply because their budget only allows for a hobbled machine. In the past they may have been able to resort to the second-hand market or cast off machines in order to get something much better. Granted, most of these people are also willing to run an unsupported operating system. Perhaps a handful would be willing to jump zealously into Linux.