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>I had more fun being creative online when the stakes were so low that it seemed that just by playing I had already won something. I’ve been thinking about thi

>I had more fun being creative online when the stakes were so low that it seemed that just by playing I had already won something. I’ve been thinking about this on and off a lot these past years. I think part of it is that when your time has no value, nothing you choose to do is a waste. That’s not to suggest your time needs to be worth nothing. But that you stop perceiving your time as having intrinsic value. My kids succeed where I fail all the time. They’ll spend hours on projects that have been done far better by other people already. But they just don’t think about those facts. They’re not relevant. Their time is not being valued in anything other than the feeling of “I want to do this thing.”

MPSimmons 2y ago
We see opportunity cost as such a danger, and you're right, it probably holds us back from enjoying life quite a lot.
pryelluw 2y ago
Have you seen the Python Atlanta website ? https://pyatl.dev https://pyatl.dev I built it and it’s pretty bad. Even with the power of the Wordpress template I managed to make a bad website. But I spent too much time thriving for perfection. And this one sort of works which is better than a non existent site that might work better. Perfect is the enemy of done.
- Waterluvian 2y ago
  Exactly. Now I’ve seen it. And I’ve seen it because it exists. If you didn’t make it and never finished it, I wouldn’t have seen it.
  - pryelluw 2y ago
    This is the latest iteration after multiple Django based rewrites. Last night I was looking into just running a wiki but that would require more time, which I don’t want to spend. More important things to do like finding speakers for the group events.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
flpm 2y ago
I think the problem is the pressure to "monetize" projects that today's internet puts on everything: either monetize the attention (ads) or by generating expertise (the "personal brand"). Back then it was just for fun, so it looked and felt more human and less corporative. We need to make the web human again, specially now with generative AI.
unethical_ban 2y ago
My dad has saved snippets from the newspaper that he read over the years. One of those snippets he gave to me is stuck to my refrigerator. >What I strive for and to a degree achieve as a craftsman wood turner has its roots in the idea expressed by Ralph Waldo Emerson: The reward of a thing well done is to have done it." This feeling cannot be abandoned. (Richard H. Montague, Groton, Vt.) I don't know what paper or magazine this came from, probably Fine Woodworking, probably 1980s. It has the same spirit many of us are talking about. The joy in doing something is doing it, not making money on it or being the best at it. In the Internet era, if you only take joy from being the best at a hobby or task online, you will never be happy.
ToDougie 2y ago
> My kids succeed where I fail all the time. They’ll spend hours on projects that have been done far better by other people already. But they just don’t think about those facts. They’re not relevant. Their time is not being valued in anything other than the feeling of “I want to do this thing.” Watching my boys grab some paper and a marker and sweat quietly over a desk for 30 minutes only to walk over and hand me some crude drawing of "a little buddy I can put on my desk" always has me rethinking my station in life. Maybe I shouldn't be so tough on them.....

MPSimmons 2y ago

We see opportunity cost as such a danger, and you're right, it probably holds us back from enjoying life quite a lot.

pryelluw 2y ago

Have you seen the Python Atlanta website ? https://pyatl.dev https://pyatl.dev I built it and it’s pretty bad. Even with the power of the Wordpress template I managed to make a bad website. But I spent too much time thriving for perfection. And this one sort of works which is better than a non existent site that might work better. Perfect is the enemy of done.

Waterluvian 2y ago
Exactly. Now I’ve seen it. And I’ve seen it because it exists. If you didn’t make it and never finished it, I wouldn’t have seen it.
- pryelluw 2y ago
  This is the latest iteration after multiple Django based rewrites. Last night I was looking into just running a wiki but that would require more time, which I don’t want to spend. More important things to do like finding speakers for the group events.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

flpm 2y ago

I think the problem is the pressure to "monetize" projects that today's internet puts on everything: either monetize the attention (ads) or by generating expertise (the "personal brand"). Back then it was just for fun, so it looked and felt more human and less corporative. We need to make the web human again, specially now with generative AI.

unethical_ban 2y ago

My dad has saved snippets from the newspaper that he read over the years. One of those snippets he gave to me is stuck to my refrigerator. >What I strive for and to a degree achieve as a craftsman wood turner has its roots in the idea expressed by Ralph Waldo Emerson: The reward of a thing well done is to have done it." This feeling cannot be abandoned. (Richard H. Montague, Groton, Vt.) I don't know what paper or magazine this came from, probably Fine Woodworking, probably 1980s. It has the same spirit many of us are talking about. The joy in doing something is doing it, not making money on it or being the best at it. In the Internet era, if you only take joy from being the best at a hobby or task online, you will never be happy.

ToDougie 2y ago

> My kids succeed where I fail all the time. They’ll spend hours on projects that have been done far better by other people already. But they just don’t think about those facts. They’re not relevant. Their time is not being valued in anything other than the feeling of “I want to do this thing.” Watching my boys grab some paper and a marker and sweat quietly over a desk for 30 minutes only to walk over and hand me some crude drawing of "a little buddy I can put on my desk" always has me rethinking my station in life. Maybe I shouldn't be so tough on them.....