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It is a Red Herring. That is because the Jones Act in context to the gross entirety of the USA and PRC economic relations is at best utterly irrelevant. Beside

It is a Red Herring. That is because the Jones Act in context to the gross entirety of the USA and PRC economic relations is at best utterly irrelevant. Besides, you might find it interesting to learn that the protectionist parts of the Jones act are in fact common around the world. Many counties prohibit port to port shippments without first visiting an international port. Mind you, many folks here would agree these kind of laws are stupid, and I would personally agree... However, that does not stop this talk about the Jones act from being a Red Herring. I'm glad you found a topic of great interrest to you, and that's great. What does this have to do with Akamai, and many other American companies, ending services in mainland China? Nothing... What does export tarrifs on Chines exports have to do with Jones act? Very little, asymptoticly little... to the point one might say the topics are orthogonal, or more plainly they might say Red Herring.

sangnoir 2y ago
Well, I'm glad that we can at least agree that the US has protectionist policies and has had them for a long time. If you want a bigger protected industry, perhaps checkout any Farm bill from the past several decades. But that's neither here nor there. China is not weird for having protectionist measures - like you said - it's pretty normal - the scope and size is what may be unusual for a country that's not a hegemon. > What does this have to do with Akamai, and many other American companies, ending services in mainland China? Glad you asked: China has protectionist policies that are designed to help its domestic tech companies. Consequently, foreign (read American) tech companies like Akamai may find the operating environment much more challenging that they would without those policies. Other non-protectionist policies don't help - such as working with the great firewall, or complying with censorship requests. TL;DR version: China protects its tech industry like the US protects its farmers and merchant marine. Acknowledging that will help frame whether the respective countries have the political appetite to temp or undo those policies.
- dgfitz 2y ago
  > Acknowledging that will help frame whether the respective countries have the political appetite to temp or undo those policies. What does framing matter? Things are going to happen, trying to “frame” them is why journalism is miserable.
  - sangnoir 2y ago
    What journalism? I'm talking about how we frame the discussion on HN in threads like this one.
    - dgfitz 2y ago
      Same point. Framing = “think about things this way” instead of just pointing out facts and letting people decide what they will. Why do you think the president-elect is who they are? People don’t like whatever “framing” is supposed to be.
      - lmm 2y ago
        > Why do you think the president-elect is who they are? People don’t like whatever “framing” is supposed to be. Isn't it the opposite? People see the same facts but framed in different ways, and so take away very different interpretations.
        dgfitz 2y ago
        People see “framed” facts hammed down their gullet for so long, accept this, be ok with that, this is the new normal even if it’s only “because we say so”, that when an other option is presented, and one isn’t ordered to “accept this because…” it resonates. Surely you realize this.
        sangnoir 2y ago
        I hope you appreciate the irony of your white-hot rage against framing, and the contrast of you saying: > this is the new normal even if it’s only “because we say so”, that when an other option is presented, and one isn’t ordered to “accept this because…” it resonates. > Surely you realize this. Why aren't you just stating the facts and letting parent decide? I don't think you are against providing relevant context (i.e. "framing"), you just have a bee in a bonnet about ... something - journalism as practiced today perhaps, but that has very little to to with the topic at thr root if the thread - until you reframed the discussion to be about journalism.
wbl 2y ago
The part of the Jones act that's significant is the US made vessel issue. Most countries don't have that.

sangnoir 2y ago

Well, I'm glad that we can at least agree that the US has protectionist policies and has had them for a long time. If you want a bigger protected industry, perhaps checkout any Farm bill from the past several decades. But that's neither here nor there. China is not weird for having protectionist measures - like you said - it's pretty normal - the scope and size is what may be unusual for a country that's not a hegemon. > What does this have to do with Akamai, and many other American companies, ending services in mainland China? Glad you asked: China has protectionist policies that are designed to help its domestic tech companies. Consequently, foreign (read American) tech companies like Akamai may find the operating environment much more challenging that they would without those policies. Other non-protectionist policies don't help - such as working with the great firewall, or complying with censorship requests. TL;DR version: China protects its tech industry like the US protects its farmers and merchant marine. Acknowledging that will help frame whether the respective countries have the political appetite to temp or undo those policies.

dgfitz 2y ago
> Acknowledging that will help frame whether the respective countries have the political appetite to temp or undo those policies. What does framing matter? Things are going to happen, trying to “frame” them is why journalism is miserable.
- sangnoir 2y ago
  What journalism? I'm talking about how we frame the discussion on HN in threads like this one.
  - dgfitz 2y ago
    Same point. Framing = “think about things this way” instead of just pointing out facts and letting people decide what they will. Why do you think the president-elect is who they are? People don’t like whatever “framing” is supposed to be.
    - lmm 2y ago
      > Why do you think the president-elect is who they are? People don’t like whatever “framing” is supposed to be. Isn't it the opposite? People see the same facts but framed in different ways, and so take away very different interpretations.
      - dgfitz 2y ago
        People see “framed” facts hammed down their gullet for so long, accept this, be ok with that, this is the new normal even if it’s only “because we say so”, that when an other option is presented, and one isn’t ordered to “accept this because…” it resonates. Surely you realize this.
        sangnoir 2y ago
        I hope you appreciate the irony of your white-hot rage against framing, and the contrast of you saying: > this is the new normal even if it’s only “because we say so”, that when an other option is presented, and one isn’t ordered to “accept this because…” it resonates. > Surely you realize this. Why aren't you just stating the facts and letting parent decide? I don't think you are against providing relevant context (i.e. "framing"), you just have a bee in a bonnet about ... something - journalism as practiced today perhaps, but that has very little to to with the topic at thr root if the thread - until you reframed the discussion to be about journalism.

wbl 2y ago

The part of the Jones act that's significant is the US made vessel issue. Most countries don't have that.