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This sounds like sour grapes after the dearMoon project folded last year. We all know 'self-sustaining colony' is a load of nonsense. No one knows how to build

This sounds like sour grapes after the dearMoon project folded last year. We all know 'self-sustaining colony' is a load of nonsense. No one knows how to build a self-sustaining ecosystem. As Bruce Sterling wrote 20 years ago: "I'll believe in people settling Mars at about the same time I see people settling the Gobi Desert. The Gobi Desert is about a thousand times as hospitable as Mars and five hundred times cheaper and easier to reach. Nobody ever writes "Gobi Desert Opera" because, well, it's just kind of plonkingly obvious that there's no good reason to go there and live. It's ugly, it's inhospitable and there's no way to make it pay. Mars is just the same, really. We just romanticize it because it's so hard to reach."

EA-3167 2y ago
The problem is that we don't all know that. One thing I've learned over many years talking about this on and offline is that only a fraction of people are aware that "The big rocket to get you to Mars in a hurry," isn't the hardest part of a Mars colony. When you talk to people about microbiome research, the challenges of even modestly reduced gravity, radiation exposure, the *cost* of getting even the most conservative starter pack of water, food, crops, etc... People either don't get it, or more often, never thought about it. When you remind them that "self-sustaining" means that your colony needs to PRODUCE everything it needs for survival, with no bad years, and do so reliably... they start to get the picture. And what's the value of a Martian colony that's dependent on Earth to survive? I should say, the value that the Moon doesn't have and then some? Once again eyes glaze over.
- eesmith 2y ago
  I am appropriately corrected, thank you. After 20 years, I don't understand why that issue isn't at the forefront of the discussion, given how having a self-sustaining independent ecosystem here on earth is much more likely to help with most of the global catastrophes people use to advocate for being a multi-planetary species. New plague that's 99.9% fatal? Button up and work on a cure. Asteroid impact that destroys surface life for 10,000 years? Good thing we have several self-sustaining independent ecosystems built underground. Need a place for 100 million climate refugees? Good thing we know how to build settlements that require little more than bare land and solar power.
  - EA-3167 2y ago
    You are a breath of fresh air on this topic.
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    > why that issue isn't at the forefront of the discussion Because there’s no real, serious discussion. No-one serious thinks there’s anything to this “flee to Mars” business; it’s pure fantasy.

EA-3167 2y ago

The problem is that we don't all know that. One thing I've learned over many years talking about this on and offline is that only a fraction of people are aware that "The big rocket to get you to Mars in a hurry," isn't the hardest part of a Mars colony. When you talk to people about microbiome research, the challenges of even modestly reduced gravity, radiation exposure, the *cost* of getting even the most conservative starter pack of water, food, crops, etc... People either don't get it, or more often, never thought about it. When you remind them that "self-sustaining" means that your colony needs to PRODUCE everything it needs for survival, with no bad years, and do so reliably... they start to get the picture. And what's the value of a Martian colony that's dependent on Earth to survive? I should say, the value that the Moon doesn't have and then some? Once again eyes glaze over.

eesmith 2y ago
I am appropriately corrected, thank you. After 20 years, I don't understand why that issue isn't at the forefront of the discussion, given how having a self-sustaining independent ecosystem here on earth is much more likely to help with most of the global catastrophes people use to advocate for being a multi-planetary species. New plague that's 99.9% fatal? Button up and work on a cure. Asteroid impact that destroys surface life for 10,000 years? Good thing we have several self-sustaining independent ecosystems built underground. Need a place for 100 million climate refugees? Good thing we know how to build settlements that require little more than bare land and solar power.
- EA-3167 2y ago
  You are a breath of fresh air on this topic.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  > why that issue isn't at the forefront of the discussion Because there’s no real, serious discussion. No-one serious thinks there’s anything to this “flee to Mars” business; it’s pure fantasy.