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This piece obviously puts sales in a bad light. If you had asked me what a salesman is like in my early 20s, I would have described them much as this article e

This piece obviously puts sales in a bad light. If you had asked me what a salesman is like in my early 20s, I would have described them much as this article expresses. But in my career in Silicon Valley I really came to respect good salespeople. I often had roles where I was debugging customer-reported issues, and good salespeople make everything smoother. I came to a conclusion that there are two types of sales transactions: one that is a one-time transaction and one that is an ongoing transaction. The one-time salespeople were just like this article: they are just trying to close a sale knowing that they don't ever have to deal with you again. If they lie, they don't have to deal with the consequences. So their incentive is to spew any kind of nonsense or lies or manipulation to close the deal. The other type of sales guys depending on building relationships. with engineers on both sides, with management, with purchasing and billing people, with everyone. When I was working on customer bugs, having a great sales guy representing the account made everything much easier. They could get the customers to loan hardware, assign more resources, get documentation, negotiate for time, etc. I respected these great sales guys because they had real skills and talent in these spheres that I didn't.

mooreds 2y ago
> I came to a conclusion that there are two types of sales transactions: one that is a one-time transaction and one that is an ongoing transaction. Incidentally, this is the difference between a good real estate agent and a "door opener".
- forinti 2y ago
  I have not yet met a "good real estate agent". I dread having to deal with these people. Case 1: a puddle in the centre of a room; agent comments that the window had been left open. Case 2: "this view will never change" as a building was going up right in front of us.
  - mooreds 2y ago
    Ooof. They are out there; I've worked with them. They're still salespeople, trying to close. But the good ones are trying to close you as a customer for the next N deals, not just this one.
  - forinti 2y ago
    There's more. Case 3: got his commission and left his company without telling me and before the deal was 100% completed. Case 4: sent me a threatening SMS (watch out, I know where you live, etc) because I didn't want to take his calls to listen to new deals I wasn't interested in.
- restateplumjer 2y ago
  For a real estate agent knowledgeability about the property would be even more important than maintaining relations, even if you're just trying to sell me this thing to never see me again, when I ask to see the breaker box or what kind of heating system is this and get a "I don't know where/what that is" It's not making a strong case for a six-figure purchase.
  - mooreds 2y ago
    I used to work in real estate. My boss, an experienced agent, told us that the most powerful phrase an agent can use is "I know that house". As in, they'd been in that house before, knew the construction, location attributes and history.
theamk 2y ago
I don't think the people you are describing are called "sales" - usually they are "post-sales support", or "account manager", or something similar.. Basically "project manager" equivalent for customer relationship. Fully agree that they are great though.
- Vedor 2y ago
  In smaller companies, one person might cover multiple roles. Also, it might be different when your employer is focused on B2B sales, though I don't have enough experience to be sure about that. Anyway, when I was working in sales, I was handling pre-sales, closings, and post-sales support. We were manufacturing and selling security equipment. The goal never was to simply close the deal. We wanted to expand the network of distributors, and to do so, we needed to build long-lasting relationships. I quite liked the experience, but I was always more tech guy than salesman – I guess most of my clients were coming back because I was preparing projects of CCTV installations, I was providing trainings for clients and their crew. But as a typical salesman described in the article, I would be terrible.
PittleyDunkin 2y ago
> I really came to respect good salespeople You can respect a person without respecting their profession. I also serve the same dysfunction in much more widely respected ways, but my role is still part of the same cancer.
- kcplate 2y ago
  > without respecting their profession I’d venture to guess that almost everyone reading this thread owes their job to talented salespeople and more importantly the sales profession as a whole. I respect them and their profession because it’s kept my family fed for nearly 40 years. I am not a salesperson, but they sure as shit sell the things I build. I need them more than they need me because talent salespeople can sell nearly anything.
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    There’s selling things you build and selling things to people who don’t need it. You don’t have to feel good about things that feed you.
    - kcplate 2y ago
      Huh? There are very few things that are “salesperson sold” today that are needed. People just go buy what they need. Pretty much if there is a salesperson involved today it’s an item that is not needed/critical to your life. That’s the whole point of a salesperson, convince you to buy something you don’t necessarily need.
julianeon 2y ago
I think they were trying to get at something (not very successfully). I'd put it like this. Want to find the best mathematician, the best engineer? Easy: just give them a hard test. Or more generally follow the metrics. The one with the highest score is the best, generally speaking. In that sense it's uncomplicated: administer the test, the highest scorer is your guy/girl. For sales there is no equivalent. There is no "test" (crude sell me a pen type exercises notwithstanding). There often is a mysterious hard-to-quantify quality to the best sellers. Of course with a track record it's much easier - the one w/the highest sales in the district, say - but without that it's quite difficult. In that sense it's very different from other fields.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

mooreds 2y ago

> I came to a conclusion that there are two types of sales transactions: one that is a one-time transaction and one that is an ongoing transaction. Incidentally, this is the difference between a good real estate agent and a "door opener".

forinti 2y ago
I have not yet met a "good real estate agent". I dread having to deal with these people. Case 1: a puddle in the centre of a room; agent comments that the window had been left open. Case 2: "this view will never change" as a building was going up right in front of us.
- mooreds 2y ago
  Ooof. They are out there; I've worked with them. They're still salespeople, trying to close. But the good ones are trying to close you as a customer for the next N deals, not just this one.
- forinti 2y ago
  There's more. Case 3: got his commission and left his company without telling me and before the deal was 100% completed. Case 4: sent me a threatening SMS (watch out, I know where you live, etc) because I didn't want to take his calls to listen to new deals I wasn't interested in.
restateplumjer 2y ago
For a real estate agent knowledgeability about the property would be even more important than maintaining relations, even if you're just trying to sell me this thing to never see me again, when I ask to see the breaker box or what kind of heating system is this and get a "I don't know where/what that is" It's not making a strong case for a six-figure purchase.
- mooreds 2y ago
  I used to work in real estate. My boss, an experienced agent, told us that the most powerful phrase an agent can use is "I know that house". As in, they'd been in that house before, knew the construction, location attributes and history.

theamk 2y ago

I don't think the people you are describing are called "sales" - usually they are "post-sales support", or "account manager", or something similar.. Basically "project manager" equivalent for customer relationship. Fully agree that they are great though.

Vedor 2y ago
In smaller companies, one person might cover multiple roles. Also, it might be different when your employer is focused on B2B sales, though I don't have enough experience to be sure about that. Anyway, when I was working in sales, I was handling pre-sales, closings, and post-sales support. We were manufacturing and selling security equipment. The goal never was to simply close the deal. We wanted to expand the network of distributors, and to do so, we needed to build long-lasting relationships. I quite liked the experience, but I was always more tech guy than salesman – I guess most of my clients were coming back because I was preparing projects of CCTV installations, I was providing trainings for clients and their crew. But as a typical salesman described in the article, I would be terrible.

PittleyDunkin 2y ago

> I really came to respect good salespeople You can respect a person without respecting their profession. I also serve the same dysfunction in much more widely respected ways, but my role is still part of the same cancer.

kcplate 2y ago
> without respecting their profession I’d venture to guess that almost everyone reading this thread owes their job to talented salespeople and more importantly the sales profession as a whole. I respect them and their profession because it’s kept my family fed for nearly 40 years. I am not a salesperson, but they sure as shit sell the things I build. I need them more than they need me because talent salespeople can sell nearly anything.
- saagarjha 2y ago
  There’s selling things you build and selling things to people who don’t need it. You don’t have to feel good about things that feed you.
  - kcplate 2y ago
    Huh? There are very few things that are “salesperson sold” today that are needed. People just go buy what they need. Pretty much if there is a salesperson involved today it’s an item that is not needed/critical to your life. That’s the whole point of a salesperson, convince you to buy something you don’t necessarily need.

julianeon 2y ago

I think they were trying to get at something (not very successfully). I'd put it like this. Want to find the best mathematician, the best engineer? Easy: just give them a hard test. Or more generally follow the metrics. The one with the highest score is the best, generally speaking. In that sense it's uncomplicated: administer the test, the highest scorer is your guy/girl. For sales there is no equivalent. There is no "test" (crude sell me a pen type exercises notwithstanding). There often is a mysterious hard-to-quantify quality to the best sellers. Of course with a track record it's much easier - the one w/the highest sales in the district, say - but without that it's quite difficult. In that sense it's very different from other fields.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]