5 ms·

Luckily there’s an easy fix, enabling JavaScript like a regular human being :p Honestly curious though, do you generally browse the web without JavaScript?

tliltocatl 2y ago
Developers should stop using javascript everywhere things can be done without it. Point.
- porridgeraisin 2y ago
  Why?
  - grayhatter 2y ago
    For the same reason you shouldn't rent or buy or use a backhoe when it's a shovel of dirt. For the same reason you shouldn't stand up multiple 8U rack mount servers to run your homeassisstant instance that would be happy on a raspi zero.
    - Forbo 2y ago
      I would love it if web devs would stop externalizing the costs of their bloated apps onto their users. Make web devs care about resource utilization. How much bandwidth, electricity, and time is wasted on poorly written applications?
    - tliltocatl 2y ago
      More like you shouldn't use a backhoe and charge passing people for its fuel and put your backhoe in the middle of the walkway. It brings negative value to the end user. If you don't care for your end user - fine, but then you can't expect them care for you or your product either.
grayhatter 2y ago
Yes, I do. The day uMatrix finally stops functioning will be an awful day. Excluding cute PoC sites, and demos; sites that function without javascript are objectively superior every way to sites that can't function without js. Though I admit that's correlative more than causative. Also, the point isn't to be a regular human being, it's to be a hacker, or engineer, or, [other]. Why be boring (regular) when you can be good at something instead?
- dreis_sw 2y ago
  Interesting, and completely agree with both your remarks, but how does it relate to disabling JavaScript? What are you getting out of it, other than making the web less usable for yourself?
  - grayhatter 2y ago
    You mean other than the reduced risk of compromise from the latest js engine exploit? Or that it also prevents some xss injection? Or that often many sites will still function with most external scripts disabled, i.e. it disables spyware that many sites don't need to install, but still do? Besides all of that, it makes the web more usable in most cases. Not more functional, more usable. I don't want your site to hijack my browser scroll, nor do I want your modal popups to interrupt me. Plus, I like knowing the level of competency of the site's developers. If it doesn't function at all without enabling a half dozen external scripts/sites, even if I still want to use your site. Which is then unlikely, I know to lower my expectations about how much I can trust you or your site.
    - Capricorn2481 2y ago
      How about loading the table row you just added instead of reloading the entire page, table and all? I'm against bloated apps and ads, in favor of using forms and HTMLs strengths, but JS is the tool and not the cause of poor design. A web developer that doesn't use it is offloading their identity based allergy onto the users bandwidth. Plus you can make modals without JS

tliltocatl 2y ago

Developers should stop using javascript everywhere things can be done without it. Point.

porridgeraisin 2y ago
Why?
- grayhatter 2y ago
  For the same reason you shouldn't rent or buy or use a backhoe when it's a shovel of dirt. For the same reason you shouldn't stand up multiple 8U rack mount servers to run your homeassisstant instance that would be happy on a raspi zero.
  - Forbo 2y ago
    I would love it if web devs would stop externalizing the costs of their bloated apps onto their users. Make web devs care about resource utilization. How much bandwidth, electricity, and time is wasted on poorly written applications?
  - tliltocatl 2y ago
    More like you shouldn't use a backhoe and charge passing people for its fuel and put your backhoe in the middle of the walkway. It brings negative value to the end user. If you don't care for your end user - fine, but then you can't expect them care for you or your product either.

grayhatter 2y ago

Yes, I do. The day uMatrix finally stops functioning will be an awful day. Excluding cute PoC sites, and demos; sites that function without javascript are objectively superior every way to sites that can't function without js. Though I admit that's correlative more than causative. Also, the point isn't to be a regular human being, it's to be a hacker, or engineer, or, [other]. Why be boring (regular) when you can be good at something instead?

dreis_sw 2y ago
Interesting, and completely agree with both your remarks, but how does it relate to disabling JavaScript? What are you getting out of it, other than making the web less usable for yourself?
- grayhatter 2y ago
  You mean other than the reduced risk of compromise from the latest js engine exploit? Or that it also prevents some xss injection? Or that often many sites will still function with most external scripts disabled, i.e. it disables spyware that many sites don't need to install, but still do? Besides all of that, it makes the web more usable in most cases. Not more functional, more usable. I don't want your site to hijack my browser scroll, nor do I want your modal popups to interrupt me. Plus, I like knowing the level of competency of the site's developers. If it doesn't function at all without enabling a half dozen external scripts/sites, even if I still want to use your site. Which is then unlikely, I know to lower my expectations about how much I can trust you or your site.
  - Capricorn2481 2y ago
    How about loading the table row you just added instead of reloading the entire page, table and all? I'm against bloated apps and ads, in favor of using forms and HTMLs strengths, but JS is the tool and not the cause of poor design. A web developer that doesn't use it is offloading their identity based allergy onto the users bandwidth. Plus you can make modals without JS