3 ms·

I'd go with Windows 7 as the last "good" version. It is similar to NT/2k, but prettier, thanks to improved graphics hardware. Same thing for XP before it. Even

by GuB-42 2y ago

I'd go with Windows 7 as the last "good" version. It is similar to NT/2k, but prettier, thanks to improved graphics hardware. Same thing for XP before it. Even Vista had a decent UI, its flaws were elsewhere. Windows 8 broke everything and Windows never recovered. I blame it on two reason: the rise of mobile platforms, and laziness from Microsoft. For the first point, we have now what seems like an unsolvable problem. Many apps now come with a desktop version and a mobile version. Completely different user experience. One has a large screen, a keyboard and mouse. The other has a small touchscreen. A good desktop app would be completely different from a good mobile app. However, you don't want that either, as you want your users familiar with one version to feel at ease with the other. It means that even when you do your best, there are compromises. But Microsoft probably could have done a decent work, but they didn't. They just become lazy. It is evident by looking at the control panel. The new control panel (settings) dates back from Windows 8, 12 years ago, and they still didn't port all the features from the old one to the new one, so you need both. They intended for a complete switch a few months ago, they weren't ready, will they ever be? In addition they regularly remove popular customization options, the style is inconsistent between the bundled apps, etc... This is not just controversial, it is objectively bad. Another factor, but Microsoft and Windows are not to blame here is that app developers prioritize branding and internal consistency over OS integration. Many modern UIs are just a web page rendered with a browser engine (ex: Electron). They are not using native OS controls, ignore theming, draw their own Windows decorations, etc... Maybe the OS is inconsistent, but app developers don't help.

immibis 2y ago
FWIW mobile and desktop aren't even the only distinct "UI environments". Steam's had a "big picture mode" aka "tenfoot mode" for a long time which is designed for media center PCs (same hardware, but you're sitting on the other side of the room, ten feet away, so everything had better be big) and of course there are things like VR. Notably, the way Steam implements its tenfoot experience is an entirely separate UI instead of a single jack-of-all-trades UI. I've never used it since I don't have that type of setup so I can't say how well it works for people accustomed to the desktop UI. It does seem that as annoying as it might be to get used to a new UI for mobile and desktop, using the same UI for both is even worse. Again we see this theme, as in other parts of software engineering, that people try to hard to invent abstractions instead of just grinding out the work (a separate design for each platform).
- mystified5016 2y ago
  Big picture mode is gone. It might be in there somewhere, but the 10' UI has been replaced by the Steam Deck UI. Not a bad replacement, honestly. The Steam Deck UI has also solved a problem that Microsoft appears entirely unable to address: mixed input modes. The entire UI can be accessed through the touch screen or the physical controls. Microsoft has been failing horribly at this since Win8, and apparently operate under the impression that every user has a 40" touch screen on their desktop computer and doesn't know what a mouse is. Good UI is achievable if your goal is to make useful software. That simply isn't what Microsoft's goal is anymore. They're just broadcom now: completely abandoned the product to focus on squeezing the users for everything they're worth.
keyringlight 2y ago
The long migration from control panel to settings is one of the big tells to me that MS doesn't have the windows UI anywhere near a top priority. They have a large amount of potential resources to throw at any problem they like, they could have done a v1.0 for win8 that provided a complete set of equivalents in the new style when they judged the OS was ready to release. Then iterate from that v1.0 in later releases as they have with other aspects of the OS, if anything MS seem to keep parts more fluid than long term stable now and aren't afraid to make major changes in service packs, win10 reaching EOL is quite different to the initial release and similar for win11. I can appreciate the UI being 'uneven' in a project with loose coordination as you find in a lot of linux distros, but for windows it could be better than it is like an orchestra playing together

by GuB-42 2y ago

immibis 2y ago

FWIW mobile and desktop aren't even the only distinct "UI environments". Steam's had a "big picture mode" aka "tenfoot mode" for a long time which is designed for media center PCs (same hardware, but you're sitting on the other side of the room, ten feet away, so everything had better be big) and of course there are things like VR. Notably, the way Steam implements its tenfoot experience is an entirely separate UI instead of a single jack-of-all-trades UI. I've never used it since I don't have that type of setup so I can't say how well it works for people accustomed to the desktop UI. It does seem that as annoying as it might be to get used to a new UI for mobile and desktop, using the same UI for both is even worse. Again we see this theme, as in other parts of software engineering, that people try to hard to invent abstractions instead of just grinding out the work (a separate design for each platform).

mystified5016 2y ago
Big picture mode is gone. It might be in there somewhere, but the 10' UI has been replaced by the Steam Deck UI. Not a bad replacement, honestly. The Steam Deck UI has also solved a problem that Microsoft appears entirely unable to address: mixed input modes. The entire UI can be accessed through the touch screen or the physical controls. Microsoft has been failing horribly at this since Win8, and apparently operate under the impression that every user has a 40" touch screen on their desktop computer and doesn't know what a mouse is. Good UI is achievable if your goal is to make useful software. That simply isn't what Microsoft's goal is anymore. They're just broadcom now: completely abandoned the product to focus on squeezing the users for everything they're worth.

keyringlight 2y ago

The long migration from control panel to settings is one of the big tells to me that MS doesn't have the windows UI anywhere near a top priority. They have a large amount of potential resources to throw at any problem they like, they could have done a v1.0 for win8 that provided a complete set of equivalents in the new style when they judged the OS was ready to release. Then iterate from that v1.0 in later releases as they have with other aspects of the OS, if anything MS seem to keep parts more fluid than long term stable now and aren't afraid to make major changes in service packs, win10 reaching EOL is quite different to the initial release and similar for win11. I can appreciate the UI being 'uneven' in a project with loose coordination as you find in a lot of linux distros, but for windows it could be better than it is like an orchestra playing together