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Left vs right and their position on masks and the vaccine varied by country, and in the us it flipped early on, I want to say something like 19weeks from the fi

Left vs right and their position on masks and the vaccine varied by country, and in the us it flipped early on, I want to say something like 19weeks from the first case in the US Vice and Fox swapped talking points. That was truly strange. I'm not smart enough to understand how the oligarchy in the US works, or how various news sources align.

scarface_74 2y ago
The left was never against vaccines. If you look at the states and their policies, the anti-vax policies are all Republican https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/political-party-affiliation-linked-excess-covid-deaths https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/political-party-affiliat...
- _heimdall 2y ago
  That isn't accurate, the US left (or at least the Democratic party) was very much against warp speed and vaccines while Trump was still in office. Many Democratic politicians, including Biden and Harris if I'm not mistaken, apoje out against Trump's vaccine program and the risk of forcing through testing under such extreme circumstances. That changes as soon as Biden, rather than Trump, owned the vaccine programs.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    The vaccines weren’t approved until 12/11/2020 after Trump had lost and wasn’t widely available until the first few months of Biden’s administration. Again who has been the anti vax party since 2020? Trump is literally trying to appoint an anti-vaxxer to his cabinet
    - bdangubic 2y ago
      hardliner GOPers… https://youtube.com/shorts/v_EUa1buffQ?feature=shared https://youtube.com/shorts/v_EUa1buffQ?feature=shared can send you one for every single one… GOP became “anti-vax” when they realized they can make it a political issue after they fucked up everything imaginable covid related (and paid the price for it in 2020 elections)
    - _heimdall 2y ago
      Do you not recall the general Democratic sentiment of a vaccine while Trump was in office and he was the one pushing for it? Many Democratic leaders were on the record calling it Trump's vaccine and either implying or directly saying that they wouldn't trust it and that it couldn't be rushed through the process. If you're referring to RFK as the anti-vaxxer, unless I'm mistaken he has been pretty clear that he isn't opposed to vaccines in general. I don't know all of his arguments or views, but the limited stuff I've seen from or about him indicates that he was opposed to the Covid vaccine and the process it was rushed through with little to no scientific study. I haven't seen him argue against all vaccines, my guess is he is more in favor of the more standard approach of things like attenuated virus vaccines.
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        RFK believes that vaccines cause autism https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0mzk2y41zvo.amp https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0mzk2y41zvo.amp
        _heimdall 2y ago
        Sure, he has said this but the few times I've heard him discuss it in any length he raises concerns over how little we know given how vaccine safety studies are done. He also raises examples of individuals he has met with stories that, in his opinion, are concerning enough to raise questions for him whether there is a link between certain vaccines and autism rates. > Vaccination has probably saved more lives and is better researched than most, if not all, aspects of healthcare. It's worth noting that the fact checking article you linked to doesn't really include much in the way of fact checking. They don't include and then discredit specific studies or data points that RFK uses. They do include a few quotes from credentialed individuals like the one above, though it ultimately says nothing and includes fluffy words like "probably saved..." With that said, I have no idea how much of a smoking gun there might be linking vaccines to autism. My point here isn't that RFK is right, but it is important to at least represent his arguments accurately and to discredit with proper data to show that his view isn't backed by the data.
        2y ago
  - TMWNN 2y ago
    For those who don't believe you: Biden, Harris, and Pelosi all saying they won't trust any Trump vaccine <https://www.newsweek.com/anti-vaccine-covid-trust-skepticism-democrat-politicization-1535559 https://www.newsweek.com/anti-vaccine-covid-trust-skepticism...>
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      Is this not trusting a “Trump vaccine”? > Meanwhile, Nancy Pelosi, Democratic speaker of the United States House of Representatives, has said any vaccine must meet safety standards before being released if it is to be accepted by the public. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/23/gop-voters-vaccines-poll-00117125 https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/23/gop-voters-vaccines... > Among Democratic voters, 76 percent said they “care more about potential health benefits than the potential health risks of vaccines.” But among Republicans, it’s split evenly: 51 percent care more about the potential health risks, while 49 percent care more about the benefits.
      - _heimdall 2y ago
        > > Meanwhile, Nancy Pelosi, Democratic speaker of the United States House of Representatives, has said any vaccine must meet safety standards before being released if it is to be accepted by the public. This alone is a big flip in what they ultimately supported though. The Covid vaccine was rushed through with limited, and flawed, studies and didn't meet any existing safety standards. The studies that were done were extremely limited in duration and only tested for the most severe safety issues that may show up within days of getting the vaccine. The studies also didn't cover a broad enough range of ages or preexisting conditions to support a blanket statements that it was safe for everyone to take. It's also worth noting that they never did any meaningful safety studies to validate the idea of taking more than the original one or two shots. Safety of booster shots, which were initially were said to not be required at all, was never studies and the recommendation was based only on the view that the original shots were safe and they weren't aware of reasons why a booster wouldn't be. Its important for me to note here that I'm not even saying whether they did or did not turn out to be safe, only what was studied and how decisions were made.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  holy shit - you wrote this with the straight face???! wow if so!!!
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    So it isn’t mostly the Republican Party that is anti-vax?
    - bdangubic 2y ago
      Republican party was having sex with the vaccines and salivating over them until they all flip-flopped because they realized there are political points to be made by fear mongering - especially un-educated - mission accomplished
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        Are you agreeing or disagreeing that the anti-vax movement is mostly Republican?
        bdangubic 2y ago
        Tough question because of course they both love and don’t love vaccines! Currently they might be anti-vaxx, earlier they want to inject not only you but your cats and dogs and parrots, tomorrow… who knows :)
        scarface_74 2y ago
        The Covid vaccine didn’t exist until after Trump lost. How could they have been pushing it?
        bdangubic 2y ago
        https://youtube.com/shorts/v_EUa1buffQ?feature=shared https://youtube.com/shorts/v_EUa1buffQ?feature=shared you do realize that even though trump lost there were few congresman and senators that were republican right? and of course the most famous anti-vaxxer is RFK Jr - a Democrat. Democrats were anti-vaxxers before it was cool. Rand Paul was stupid enough to believe by now fully retracted study about the “link” between vaccines and autism
- galangalalgol 2y ago
  In the UK and Israel the left are still against vaccines (not specifically covid vaccines). Prior to covid anti-vax was either religious or leftist conspiracy in the US. It is like how the dnc in the us started to support civil rights as early as FDR, and then the tipping point with LBJ that drove all the racists to the gop. Parties flip flop on things all the time. Russia used to influence the left primarily, now they use the right. The games are visible, but not comprehensible to me.
LAC-Tech 2y ago
I remember this and this really disillusioned me wrt to the so called left/right divide. At the very beginning it was considered a right wing thing to worry about viruses, and doing so was linked to anti-chinese racism. Then it all flipped on it's head, and 1984 style, no one seems to remember. Liking vaccines was always progressive. We've always been at war with east asia (but don't mention where in east asia the virus came from).

scarface_74 2y ago

The left was never against vaccines. If you look at the states and their policies, the anti-vax policies are all Republican https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/political-party-affiliation-linked-excess-covid-deaths https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/political-party-affiliat...

_heimdall 2y ago
That isn't accurate, the US left (or at least the Democratic party) was very much against warp speed and vaccines while Trump was still in office. Many Democratic politicians, including Biden and Harris if I'm not mistaken, apoje out against Trump's vaccine program and the risk of forcing through testing under such extreme circumstances. That changes as soon as Biden, rather than Trump, owned the vaccine programs.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  The vaccines weren’t approved until 12/11/2020 after Trump had lost and wasn’t widely available until the first few months of Biden’s administration. Again who has been the anti vax party since 2020? Trump is literally trying to appoint an anti-vaxxer to his cabinet
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    hardliner GOPers… https://youtube.com/shorts/v_EUa1buffQ?feature=shared https://youtube.com/shorts/v_EUa1buffQ?feature=shared can send you one for every single one… GOP became “anti-vax” when they realized they can make it a political issue after they fucked up everything imaginable covid related (and paid the price for it in 2020 elections)
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    Do you not recall the general Democratic sentiment of a vaccine while Trump was in office and he was the one pushing for it? Many Democratic leaders were on the record calling it Trump's vaccine and either implying or directly saying that they wouldn't trust it and that it couldn't be rushed through the process. If you're referring to RFK as the anti-vaxxer, unless I'm mistaken he has been pretty clear that he isn't opposed to vaccines in general. I don't know all of his arguments or views, but the limited stuff I've seen from or about him indicates that he was opposed to the Covid vaccine and the process it was rushed through with little to no scientific study. I haven't seen him argue against all vaccines, my guess is he is more in favor of the more standard approach of things like attenuated virus vaccines.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      RFK believes that vaccines cause autism https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0mzk2y41zvo.amp https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0mzk2y41zvo.amp
      - _heimdall 2y ago
        Sure, he has said this but the few times I've heard him discuss it in any length he raises concerns over how little we know given how vaccine safety studies are done. He also raises examples of individuals he has met with stories that, in his opinion, are concerning enough to raise questions for him whether there is a link between certain vaccines and autism rates. > Vaccination has probably saved more lives and is better researched than most, if not all, aspects of healthcare. It's worth noting that the fact checking article you linked to doesn't really include much in the way of fact checking. They don't include and then discredit specific studies or data points that RFK uses. They do include a few quotes from credentialed individuals like the one above, though it ultimately says nothing and includes fluffy words like "probably saved..." With that said, I have no idea how much of a smoking gun there might be linking vaccines to autism. My point here isn't that RFK is right, but it is important to at least represent his arguments accurately and to discredit with proper data to show that his view isn't backed by the data.
        2y ago
- TMWNN 2y ago
  For those who don't believe you: Biden, Harris, and Pelosi all saying they won't trust any Trump vaccine <https://www.newsweek.com/anti-vaccine-covid-trust-skepticism-democrat-politicization-1535559 https://www.newsweek.com/anti-vaccine-covid-trust-skepticism...>
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    Is this not trusting a “Trump vaccine”? > Meanwhile, Nancy Pelosi, Democratic speaker of the United States House of Representatives, has said any vaccine must meet safety standards before being released if it is to be accepted by the public. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/23/gop-voters-vaccines-poll-00117125 https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/23/gop-voters-vaccines... > Among Democratic voters, 76 percent said they “care more about potential health benefits than the potential health risks of vaccines.” But among Republicans, it’s split evenly: 51 percent care more about the potential health risks, while 49 percent care more about the benefits.
    - _heimdall 2y ago
      > > Meanwhile, Nancy Pelosi, Democratic speaker of the United States House of Representatives, has said any vaccine must meet safety standards before being released if it is to be accepted by the public. This alone is a big flip in what they ultimately supported though. The Covid vaccine was rushed through with limited, and flawed, studies and didn't meet any existing safety standards. The studies that were done were extremely limited in duration and only tested for the most severe safety issues that may show up within days of getting the vaccine. The studies also didn't cover a broad enough range of ages or preexisting conditions to support a blanket statements that it was safe for everyone to take. It's also worth noting that they never did any meaningful safety studies to validate the idea of taking more than the original one or two shots. Safety of booster shots, which were initially were said to not be required at all, was never studies and the recommendation was based only on the view that the original shots were safe and they weren't aware of reasons why a booster wouldn't be. Its important for me to note here that I'm not even saying whether they did or did not turn out to be safe, only what was studied and how decisions were made.
bdangubic 2y ago
holy shit - you wrote this with the straight face???! wow if so!!!
- scarface_74 2y ago
  So it isn’t mostly the Republican Party that is anti-vax?
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    Republican party was having sex with the vaccines and salivating over them until they all flip-flopped because they realized there are political points to be made by fear mongering - especially un-educated - mission accomplished
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      Are you agreeing or disagreeing that the anti-vax movement is mostly Republican?
      - bdangubic 2y ago
        Tough question because of course they both love and don’t love vaccines! Currently they might be anti-vaxx, earlier they want to inject not only you but your cats and dogs and parrots, tomorrow… who knows :)
        scarface_74 2y ago
        The Covid vaccine didn’t exist until after Trump lost. How could they have been pushing it?
        bdangubic 2y ago
        https://youtube.com/shorts/v_EUa1buffQ?feature=shared https://youtube.com/shorts/v_EUa1buffQ?feature=shared you do realize that even though trump lost there were few congresman and senators that were republican right? and of course the most famous anti-vaxxer is RFK Jr - a Democrat. Democrats were anti-vaxxers before it was cool. Rand Paul was stupid enough to believe by now fully retracted study about the “link” between vaccines and autism
galangalalgol 2y ago
In the UK and Israel the left are still against vaccines (not specifically covid vaccines). Prior to covid anti-vax was either religious or leftist conspiracy in the US. It is like how the dnc in the us started to support civil rights as early as FDR, and then the tipping point with LBJ that drove all the racists to the gop. Parties flip flop on things all the time. Russia used to influence the left primarily, now they use the right. The games are visible, but not comprehensible to me.

LAC-Tech 2y ago

I remember this and this really disillusioned me wrt to the so called left/right divide. At the very beginning it was considered a right wing thing to worry about viruses, and doing so was linked to anti-chinese racism. Then it all flipped on it's head, and 1984 style, no one seems to remember. Liking vaccines was always progressive. We've always been at war with east asia (but don't mention where in east asia the virus came from).