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If you're looking for Covid response lessons to learn, WFH is pretty low on the list in my opinion. We saw how fragile our entire system is from infrastructure

If you're looking for Covid response lessons to learn, WFH is pretty low on the list in my opinion. We saw how fragile our entire system is from infrastructure to food. We saw how quickly a bit of fear turned an entire political party (at least in the US) from vilifying big pharma to putting it on a pedestal, handing over mountains of money, and creating legal cover for any and all liability. We saw how strong of a grip the news media has over society, turning public opinion on a dime as new recommendations/talking points came down. We saw how intertwined social media and the government really is. WFH feels like a quaint novelty to me in the context of what all went wrong and what lessons were missed during the pandemic response.

scarface_74 2y ago
The party you are thinking about isn’t the party that was against the science of vaccines
- galangalalgol 2y ago
  Left vs right and their position on masks and the vaccine varied by country, and in the us it flipped early on, I want to say something like 19weeks from the first case in the US Vice and Fox swapped talking points. That was truly strange. I'm not smart enough to understand how the oligarchy in the US works, or how various news sources align.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    The left was never against vaccines. If you look at the states and their policies, the anti-vax policies are all Republican https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/political-party-affiliation-linked-excess-covid-deaths https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/political-party-affiliat...
    - _heimdall 2y ago
      That isn't accurate, the US left (or at least the Democratic party) was very much against warp speed and vaccines while Trump was still in office. Many Democratic politicians, including Biden and Harris if I'm not mistaken, apoje out against Trump's vaccine program and the risk of forcing through testing under such extreme circumstances. That changes as soon as Biden, rather than Trump, owned the vaccine programs.
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        The vaccines weren’t approved until 12/11/2020 after Trump had lost and wasn’t widely available until the first few months of Biden’s administration. Again who has been the anti vax party since 2020? Trump is literally trying to appoint an anti-vaxxer to his cabinet
        bdangubic 2y ago
        hardliner GOPers… https://youtube.com/shorts/v_EUa1buffQ?feature=shared https://youtube.com/shorts/v_EUa1buffQ?feature=shared can send you one for every single one… GOP became “anti-vax” when they realized they can make it a political issue after they fucked up everything imaginable covid related (and paid the price for it in 2020 elections)
        _heimdall 2y ago
        Do you not recall the general Democratic sentiment of a vaccine while Trump was in office and he was the one pushing for it? Many Democratic leaders were on the record calling it Trump's vaccine and either implying or directly saying that they wouldn't trust it and that it couldn't be rushed through the process. If you're referring to RFK as the anti-vaxxer, unless I'm mistaken he has been pretty clear that he isn't opposed to vaccines in general. I don't know all of his arguments or views, but the limited stuff I've seen from or about him indicates that he was opposed to the Covid vaccine and the process it was rushed through with little to no scientific study. I haven't seen him argue against all vaccines, my guess is he is more in favor of the more standard approach of things like attenuated virus vaccines.
        2y ago
    - bdangubic 2y ago
      holy shit - you wrote this with the straight face???! wow if so!!!
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        So it isn’t mostly the Republican Party that is anti-vax?
        bdangubic 2y ago
        Republican party was having sex with the vaccines and salivating over them until they all flip-flopped because they realized there are political points to be made by fear mongering - especially un-educated - mission accomplished
        scarface_74 2y ago
        Are you agreeing or disagreeing that the anti-vax movement is mostly Republican?
        bdangubic 2y ago
        Tough question because of course they both love and don’t love vaccines! Currently they might be anti-vaxx, earlier they want to inject not only you but your cats and dogs and parrots, tomorrow… who knows :)
        scarface_74 2y ago
        The Covid vaccine didn’t exist until after Trump lost. How could they have been pushing it?
        bdangubic 2y ago
        https://youtube.com/shorts/v_EUa1buffQ?feature=shared https://youtube.com/shorts/v_EUa1buffQ?feature=shared you do realize that even though trump lost there were few congresman and senators that were republican right? and of course the most famous anti-vaxxer is RFK Jr - a Democrat. Democrats were anti-vaxxers before it was cool. Rand Paul was stupid enough to believe by now fully retracted study about the “link” between vaccines and autism
    - galangalalgol 2y ago
      In the UK and Israel the left are still against vaccines (not specifically covid vaccines). Prior to covid anti-vax was either religious or leftist conspiracy in the US. It is like how the dnc in the us started to support civil rights as early as FDR, and then the tipping point with LBJ that drove all the racists to the gop. Parties flip flop on things all the time. Russia used to influence the left primarily, now they use the right. The games are visible, but not comprehensible to me.
  - LAC-Tech 2y ago
    I remember this and this really disillusioned me wrt to the so called left/right divide. At the very beginning it was considered a right wing thing to worry about viruses, and doing so was linked to anti-chinese racism. Then it all flipped on it's head, and 1984 style, no one seems to remember. Liking vaccines was always progressive. We've always been at war with east asia (but don't mention where in east asia the virus came from).
- _heimdall 2y ago
  I'm not sure what you're getting at, do you mind clarifying? For clarity on my end, the american Democratic party was going after big pharma and the Sackler family specifically for the opioid epidemic. In comes concerns over Covid (or CoV-2) and the same party completely embraced big pharma and vaccines developed under EUA. Hell, the President tried multiple times in televised speeches to push everyone to get vaccinated for fear of killing the elderly and dying over Christmas holiday.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    You don’t see the difference between going after the Sackler family for underplaying their part in the opioid crisis and still being in favor of vaccines? Or is it that you don’t see going after gouging American consumers for the same drugs that other countries get a lot cheaper? The first Covid vaccine wasn’t approved until December 11, 2020 after Trump had lost the election and wasn’t available widely until March or April of 2021.
    - _heimdall 2y ago
      > You don’t see the difference between going after the Sackler family for underplaying their part in the opioid crisis and still being in favor of vaccines. I didn't say there are no differences, of course there are. I also wasn't talking about all vaccines, or even vaccines at all really. I was trying to point out that just before the pandemic we had Democratic politicians and much of the media demonizing big pharma companies, and just a few months after all of that disappeared and those same companies were being handed billions of dollars, given even more legal liability cover, and were being talked about as saviors of us all. > Or is it that you don’t see going after gouging American consumers for the same drugs that other countries get a lot cheaper? There are some politicians going after this and that's a good thing, I don't see it as the most important problem with big pharma though, and the progress here has been slow to nonexistent. > The first Covid vaccine wasn’t approved until December 11, 2020 after Trump had lost the election and wasn’t available widely until March or April of 2021. Agreed, that's the correct timeline. Trump was still in office when Warp Speed began and he was originally the one pushing for a vaccine. Many Democratic leaders were on the record calling it Trump's vaccine and implying or directly saying they wouldn't trust a vaccine he rushed through the process, effectively calling it a political move to get something out and claim that he fixed it.

scarface_74 2y ago

The party you are thinking about isn’t the party that was against the science of vaccines

galangalalgol 2y ago
Left vs right and their position on masks and the vaccine varied by country, and in the us it flipped early on, I want to say something like 19weeks from the first case in the US Vice and Fox swapped talking points. That was truly strange. I'm not smart enough to understand how the oligarchy in the US works, or how various news sources align.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  The left was never against vaccines. If you look at the states and their policies, the anti-vax policies are all Republican https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/political-party-affiliation-linked-excess-covid-deaths https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/political-party-affiliat...
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    That isn't accurate, the US left (or at least the Democratic party) was very much against warp speed and vaccines while Trump was still in office. Many Democratic politicians, including Biden and Harris if I'm not mistaken, apoje out against Trump's vaccine program and the risk of forcing through testing under such extreme circumstances. That changes as soon as Biden, rather than Trump, owned the vaccine programs.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      The vaccines weren’t approved until 12/11/2020 after Trump had lost and wasn’t widely available until the first few months of Biden’s administration. Again who has been the anti vax party since 2020? Trump is literally trying to appoint an anti-vaxxer to his cabinet
      - bdangubic 2y ago
        hardliner GOPers… https://youtube.com/shorts/v_EUa1buffQ?feature=shared https://youtube.com/shorts/v_EUa1buffQ?feature=shared can send you one for every single one… GOP became “anti-vax” when they realized they can make it a political issue after they fucked up everything imaginable covid related (and paid the price for it in 2020 elections)
      - _heimdall 2y ago
        Do you not recall the general Democratic sentiment of a vaccine while Trump was in office and he was the one pushing for it? Many Democratic leaders were on the record calling it Trump's vaccine and either implying or directly saying that they wouldn't trust it and that it couldn't be rushed through the process. If you're referring to RFK as the anti-vaxxer, unless I'm mistaken he has been pretty clear that he isn't opposed to vaccines in general. I don't know all of his arguments or views, but the limited stuff I've seen from or about him indicates that he was opposed to the Covid vaccine and the process it was rushed through with little to no scientific study. I haven't seen him argue against all vaccines, my guess is he is more in favor of the more standard approach of things like attenuated virus vaccines.
        2y ago
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    holy shit - you wrote this with the straight face???! wow if so!!!
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      So it isn’t mostly the Republican Party that is anti-vax?
      - bdangubic 2y ago
        Republican party was having sex with the vaccines and salivating over them until they all flip-flopped because they realized there are political points to be made by fear mongering - especially un-educated - mission accomplished
        scarface_74 2y ago
        Are you agreeing or disagreeing that the anti-vax movement is mostly Republican?
        bdangubic 2y ago
        Tough question because of course they both love and don’t love vaccines! Currently they might be anti-vaxx, earlier they want to inject not only you but your cats and dogs and parrots, tomorrow… who knows :)
        scarface_74 2y ago
        The Covid vaccine didn’t exist until after Trump lost. How could they have been pushing it?
        bdangubic 2y ago
        https://youtube.com/shorts/v_EUa1buffQ?feature=shared https://youtube.com/shorts/v_EUa1buffQ?feature=shared you do realize that even though trump lost there were few congresman and senators that were republican right? and of course the most famous anti-vaxxer is RFK Jr - a Democrat. Democrats were anti-vaxxers before it was cool. Rand Paul was stupid enough to believe by now fully retracted study about the “link” between vaccines and autism
  - galangalalgol 2y ago
    In the UK and Israel the left are still against vaccines (not specifically covid vaccines). Prior to covid anti-vax was either religious or leftist conspiracy in the US. It is like how the dnc in the us started to support civil rights as early as FDR, and then the tipping point with LBJ that drove all the racists to the gop. Parties flip flop on things all the time. Russia used to influence the left primarily, now they use the right. The games are visible, but not comprehensible to me.
- LAC-Tech 2y ago
  I remember this and this really disillusioned me wrt to the so called left/right divide. At the very beginning it was considered a right wing thing to worry about viruses, and doing so was linked to anti-chinese racism. Then it all flipped on it's head, and 1984 style, no one seems to remember. Liking vaccines was always progressive. We've always been at war with east asia (but don't mention where in east asia the virus came from).
_heimdall 2y ago
I'm not sure what you're getting at, do you mind clarifying? For clarity on my end, the american Democratic party was going after big pharma and the Sackler family specifically for the opioid epidemic. In comes concerns over Covid (or CoV-2) and the same party completely embraced big pharma and vaccines developed under EUA. Hell, the President tried multiple times in televised speeches to push everyone to get vaccinated for fear of killing the elderly and dying over Christmas holiday.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  You don’t see the difference between going after the Sackler family for underplaying their part in the opioid crisis and still being in favor of vaccines? Or is it that you don’t see going after gouging American consumers for the same drugs that other countries get a lot cheaper? The first Covid vaccine wasn’t approved until December 11, 2020 after Trump had lost the election and wasn’t available widely until March or April of 2021.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    > You don’t see the difference between going after the Sackler family for underplaying their part in the opioid crisis and still being in favor of vaccines. I didn't say there are no differences, of course there are. I also wasn't talking about all vaccines, or even vaccines at all really. I was trying to point out that just before the pandemic we had Democratic politicians and much of the media demonizing big pharma companies, and just a few months after all of that disappeared and those same companies were being handed billions of dollars, given even more legal liability cover, and were being talked about as saviors of us all. > Or is it that you don’t see going after gouging American consumers for the same drugs that other countries get a lot cheaper? There are some politicians going after this and that's a good thing, I don't see it as the most important problem with big pharma though, and the progress here has been slow to nonexistent. > The first Covid vaccine wasn’t approved until December 11, 2020 after Trump had lost the election and wasn’t available widely until March or April of 2021. Agreed, that's the correct timeline. Trump was still in office when Warp Speed began and he was originally the one pushing for a vaccine. Many Democratic leaders were on the record calling it Trump's vaccine and implying or directly saying they wouldn't trust a vaccine he rushed through the process, effectively calling it a political move to get something out and claim that he fixed it.