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My father has fallen for one fraud after another these last few years. It’s disgusting. Anything in the direction of solving this would be doing the lord’s wor

My father has fallen for one fraud after another these last few years. It’s disgusting. Anything in the direction of solving this would be doing the lord’s work.

throwaway48476 2y ago
The solution is for all foreign wire transfers to be insured and reversible which would drive up the cost of doing business with countries home to scammers.
- seizethecheese 2y ago
  The scams sometimes involve getting him to buy gift cards and then sending the card number. Not sure your solution would help.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    Gift cards are a money transmitting service.
- isubkhankulov 2y ago
  That’s just going to drive more fraud to the receiver’s side. For example, one can pay for goods and receive them, then reverse the payment. This already is a huge percentage of fraud that businesses have to deal with, and there is a large industry built around preventing it. Fighting fraud (and other crimes) requires vigilance from all parties.
  - AnarchismIsCool 2y ago
    Yeah, that's basically what happened in the case of the famous Nespresso Money Mule story. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IT2oAzTcvU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IT2oAzTcvU
- fallingknife 2y ago
  Insured against what? (The bank is already liable if the account is breached). These scam transfers are intentional acts authorized by the account holders. A company can't be held liable for the stupidity of its customers.
  - jopsen 2y ago
    Banks should be liable, there is often insufficient ways to validate who you're transferring money to. Sometimes the bank interface will tell you name and address, after you type in numbers, but who validates this? My bank (in Denmark) sometimes sends me emails from an domain that isn't their primary domain. The bank uses a login system that is provided by the state. In theory it's a good idea, but you sign-in on domains that are not owned identity authority. Like I sign-in on the bank website, instead of sign-in by redirecting from the bank to a trusted domain owned by the identity authority (how like OIDC flows usually work). Sure the login flow still involves an app, but my point is: There is a lot of bad practices around. These should incur liability. Just start looking at what domains emails are sent from. And complain if they are not the primary domain of the entity contacting you, you'll get tired real soon.
    - fallingknife 2y ago
      I agree, and in the US banks are already liable if an unauthorized person gains access to your funds. But what I'm saying is that most of the scams that OP is talking about just aren't done that way. It's just a scammer that tricks them into sending money. It's just old fashioned con man stuff but over email or phone. And of you're dumb enough to believe that the only way the IRS (US tax agency) is willing to accept payment is by Visa gift card (and yes this is actually a common scam here) it's just not your bank's problem.
      - TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
        Public awareness campaigns on the level of anti drink drive ads from the 90s. Pay your taxes by Visa gift card. Then you’re a blood idiot. https://youtu.be/RmhgGm4joEQ?si=bJzbF8Gnz-G5Nt6b https://youtu.be/RmhgGm4joEQ?si=bJzbF8Gnz-G5Nt6b
- tsimionescu 2y ago
  How would that help? How would you prove to the insurer that you were scammed out of the money and are not in fact pulling the opposite scam (that is, paying someone for a good/service, and then clawing the money back afterwards)?
TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
Power of attorney, and hold all his cards etc for him. Requires the person to want to do that though.
leobg 2y ago
What country are you in? I’m in DE and have filed a criminal complaint about a company that runs fake personal ads targeting the elderly: When an elderly person calls, they schedule an appointment at the person’s home. Then, over several hours, they talk them into signing a 3,000 EUR contract for an objectively useless service (getting contact data of 7 or so random people over a period of several weeks). The guy running this scheme has been doing it since the 1990s. We know they did > 40 Million Euros in the last 10 years alone. We filed the complaint a year ago and police and district attorney have done nothing so far. At the same time, the criminal himself has sued journalists who have covered the story multiple times. Seems like the criminals are more resourceful than those who are getting paid to stop them.

My father has fallen for one fraud after another these last few years. It’s disgusting. Anything in the direction of solving this would be doing the lord’s work.

throwaway48476 2y ago

The solution is for all foreign wire transfers to be insured and reversible which would drive up the cost of doing business with countries home to scammers.

seizethecheese 2y ago
The scams sometimes involve getting him to buy gift cards and then sending the card number. Not sure your solution would help.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  Gift cards are a money transmitting service.
isubkhankulov 2y ago
That’s just going to drive more fraud to the receiver’s side. For example, one can pay for goods and receive them, then reverse the payment. This already is a huge percentage of fraud that businesses have to deal with, and there is a large industry built around preventing it. Fighting fraud (and other crimes) requires vigilance from all parties.
- AnarchismIsCool 2y ago
  Yeah, that's basically what happened in the case of the famous Nespresso Money Mule story. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IT2oAzTcvU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IT2oAzTcvU
fallingknife 2y ago
Insured against what? (The bank is already liable if the account is breached). These scam transfers are intentional acts authorized by the account holders. A company can't be held liable for the stupidity of its customers.
- jopsen 2y ago
  Banks should be liable, there is often insufficient ways to validate who you're transferring money to. Sometimes the bank interface will tell you name and address, after you type in numbers, but who validates this? My bank (in Denmark) sometimes sends me emails from an domain that isn't their primary domain. The bank uses a login system that is provided by the state. In theory it's a good idea, but you sign-in on domains that are not owned identity authority. Like I sign-in on the bank website, instead of sign-in by redirecting from the bank to a trusted domain owned by the identity authority (how like OIDC flows usually work). Sure the login flow still involves an app, but my point is: There is a lot of bad practices around. These should incur liability. Just start looking at what domains emails are sent from. And complain if they are not the primary domain of the entity contacting you, you'll get tired real soon.
  - fallingknife 2y ago
    I agree, and in the US banks are already liable if an unauthorized person gains access to your funds. But what I'm saying is that most of the scams that OP is talking about just aren't done that way. It's just a scammer that tricks them into sending money. It's just old fashioned con man stuff but over email or phone. And of you're dumb enough to believe that the only way the IRS (US tax agency) is willing to accept payment is by Visa gift card (and yes this is actually a common scam here) it's just not your bank's problem.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
      Public awareness campaigns on the level of anti drink drive ads from the 90s. Pay your taxes by Visa gift card. Then you’re a blood idiot. https://youtu.be/RmhgGm4joEQ?si=bJzbF8Gnz-G5Nt6b https://youtu.be/RmhgGm4joEQ?si=bJzbF8Gnz-G5Nt6b
tsimionescu 2y ago
How would that help? How would you prove to the insurer that you were scammed out of the money and are not in fact pulling the opposite scam (that is, paying someone for a good/service, and then clawing the money back afterwards)?

TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago

Power of attorney, and hold all his cards etc for him. Requires the person to want to do that though.

leobg 2y ago

What country are you in? I’m in DE and have filed a criminal complaint about a company that runs fake personal ads targeting the elderly: When an elderly person calls, they schedule an appointment at the person’s home. Then, over several hours, they talk them into signing a 3,000 EUR contract for an objectively useless service (getting contact data of 7 or so random people over a period of several weeks). The guy running this scheme has been doing it since the 1990s. We know they did > 40 Million Euros in the last 10 years alone. We filed the complaint a year ago and police and district attorney have done nothing so far. At the same time, the criminal himself has sued journalists who have covered the story multiple times. Seems like the criminals are more resourceful than those who are getting paid to stop them.