4 ms·

Interesting, is "saudade" popular enough now that people are using it without explanation? I searched for the term in the article and it doesn't seem to be defi

Interesting, is "saudade" popular enough now that people are using it without explanation? I searched for the term in the article and it doesn't seem to be defined. Extra unexpected because there does not seem to be any connection to a Portuguese-speaking country in the article. Has it reached "hygge" status? Brazilians (my wife included) describe saudade as a sort of deep longing to be back with a loved one in person. Not sure if it's used in all Portuguese-speaking places or just Brazil (or where the term originated for that matter). The translation honestly seems straightforward enough but often when you ask someone to translate, they get that "on the tip of the tongue" look on their face and say English doesn't really have the right words for it.

tgv 2y ago
I think you're right that it's 'hygge'-like. Saudade is a common Portuguese word, and (as far as I know) not limited to loving people, but also open to wider nostalgia. It apparently stems from solitatem (solitude). That it would apply to ABBA's music seems to me the result of the artistic-intellectual tendency to re-interpret everything in the opposite direction.
- nolito 2y ago
  "Hygge" - portuguese living in Denmark - is not related to "saudade". "Saudade" is as stated by others deep longing with a touch of depression and enjoying that. "Hygge" is something you do to have a good time - with yourself or others.
  - kaycebasques 2y ago
    When I mentioned "hygge" I did not mean to imply that they have the same meaning. I was referring to the fact that "hygge" has entered mainstream English culture, to the point where a lot of English speakers know what it means. I was wondering whether "saudade" now has a similar level of mainstream awareness.
leonelc 2y ago
It's quite big in European Portuguese and has always been, it's not a Brazilian thing. Deep longing is close, but it's more nuanced, and it doesn't have to be longing for someone, it can be someplace or activity, it also involves a kind of active recollection where you try to relive stuff in your memory, and there's an element of hope that you will experience whatever it is you miss again.
linfocito 2y ago
Brazilian here. I honestly don’t get the idea of the pretense uniqueness of the term “saudade”. Sure there is not an equivalent noun in English, but, to me, the verb “to miss” someone or some place conveys precisely the same feeling.
- hausen 2y ago
  Another Brazilian here: I'm pretty sure "yearning" is that equivalent noun.
- lucasoshiro 2y ago
  > the verb “to miss” someone or some place conveys precisely the same feeling It's not a perfect translation, as you can "miss a call", "miss a good opportunity", etc and it doesn't mean that you are feeling saudade of it. But this case would be almost ok, just like we don't have a single word, for example, for the verb "to handle", which is a word that has almost the same idea in several contexts but we need a different word for each one ("lidar", "manipular", "mexer", "operar", "cuidar", "tratar", ...) However, "to miss" is a verb and would be a translation for "sentir saudade". There's still no precise word for the noun "saudade", the feeling itself. Perhaps the closest one is "nostalgia", but it's still not exactly the same as nostalgia has this sense of something that happened in a distant past, and it is more related to the past itself than a person, a thing, etc. Even in Portuguese we have the word "nostalgia", but no one says "estou sentido nostalgia de você", we say "estou sentindo saudade de você". And we can feel saudade of something that happened yesterday, but not nostalgia.
  - dalmo3 2y ago
    How often do you use the standalone noun out of context though? Every real world usage of the term I can think of has it in the verbal form: "sentir saudade", "estar com saudade", "dar saudade", "a saudade é grande". Even in the sentence "Saudade" the verb is implied. In all those cases it can be accurately translated as "to miss".
    - lucasoshiro 2y ago
n4r9 2y ago
The Portuguese entry into the Eurovision song contest in 2022 was a beautiful song called "Saudade" by Maro. It rightly won the contest, and that's how my wife and I know the term (we still sing the chorus around the house sometimes). So it's unexpectedly popular in various European countries. https://youtube.com/watch?v=eQul-rkcGPQ https://youtube.com/watch?v=eQul-rkcGPQ
- croisillon 2y ago
  how do you mean "it won the contest"?
  - ngcazz 2y ago
    It was the Portuguese entry in the Eurovision song contest, so it won the Portuguese contest.
  - n4r9 2y ago
    Ah I was wrong! I thought it won Eurovision but it actually came ninth. Of course, that was the year Ukraine won from the public vote due to solidarity after Russia's invasion.
    - croisillon 2y ago
      thanks for your answer, in retrospect i always tend to believe my favorite song won ;) i really liked Moldova in 2022! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGNT5Uh-WKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGNT5Uh-WKw
      - n4r9 2y ago
        Yes, I even remember wondering whether they got under-voted because of links with Russia :/
lucasoshiro 2y ago
> saudade as a sort of deep longing to be back with a loved one in person Brazilian here. Not only a person, it can be a place, a thing, a scent, a moment and so on. It's kind of a nostalgia, but it doesn't need to be exactly related to a distant time. For example, if you are traveling you can feel saudade of your home the moment in the first day. You may also feel saudade when you listen to a song that you used to listen in a good moment of your life. Nowadays everyone knows that it's a word that only exists in Portuguese (and in Galician, which is really close to Portuguese), but it was really shocking for me and other people that almost no other language has a similar word. Perhaps it is one of the most used words for describing a feeling here, it's like not having a word for "love", "anger" or "envy". Other unique thing in Portuguese is that we have two verbs for the verb "to be": "ser" and "estar". "Ser" is when something always "is" and "estar" is for something that "is" at this moment. For example: if you translate "she is beautiful" as "ser" you expect that she is beautiful everyday, in all situations, while if you translate as "estar" is because she is looking good at this moment (perhaps she is wearing a nice dress, or recently has her hair cut, etc). Only having this in Portuguese was also shocking to me, as that distinction is natural for us.
- mixmastamyk 2y ago
  Ser/estar in Spanish as well.

tgv 2y ago

I think you're right that it's 'hygge'-like. Saudade is a common Portuguese word, and (as far as I know) not limited to loving people, but also open to wider nostalgia. It apparently stems from solitatem (solitude). That it would apply to ABBA's music seems to me the result of the artistic-intellectual tendency to re-interpret everything in the opposite direction.

nolito 2y ago
"Hygge" - portuguese living in Denmark - is not related to "saudade". "Saudade" is as stated by others deep longing with a touch of depression and enjoying that. "Hygge" is something you do to have a good time - with yourself or others.
- kaycebasques 2y ago
  When I mentioned "hygge" I did not mean to imply that they have the same meaning. I was referring to the fact that "hygge" has entered mainstream English culture, to the point where a lot of English speakers know what it means. I was wondering whether "saudade" now has a similar level of mainstream awareness.

leonelc 2y ago

It's quite big in European Portuguese and has always been, it's not a Brazilian thing. Deep longing is close, but it's more nuanced, and it doesn't have to be longing for someone, it can be someplace or activity, it also involves a kind of active recollection where you try to relive stuff in your memory, and there's an element of hope that you will experience whatever it is you miss again.

linfocito 2y ago

Brazilian here. I honestly don’t get the idea of the pretense uniqueness of the term “saudade”. Sure there is not an equivalent noun in English, but, to me, the verb “to miss” someone or some place conveys precisely the same feeling.

hausen 2y ago
Another Brazilian here: I'm pretty sure "yearning" is that equivalent noun.
lucasoshiro 2y ago
> the verb “to miss” someone or some place conveys precisely the same feeling It's not a perfect translation, as you can "miss a call", "miss a good opportunity", etc and it doesn't mean that you are feeling saudade of it. But this case would be almost ok, just like we don't have a single word, for example, for the verb "to handle", which is a word that has almost the same idea in several contexts but we need a different word for each one ("lidar", "manipular", "mexer", "operar", "cuidar", "tratar", ...) However, "to miss" is a verb and would be a translation for "sentir saudade". There's still no precise word for the noun "saudade", the feeling itself. Perhaps the closest one is "nostalgia", but it's still not exactly the same as nostalgia has this sense of something that happened in a distant past, and it is more related to the past itself than a person, a thing, etc. Even in Portuguese we have the word "nostalgia", but no one says "estou sentido nostalgia de você", we say "estou sentindo saudade de você". And we can feel saudade of something that happened yesterday, but not nostalgia.
- dalmo3 2y ago
  How often do you use the standalone noun out of context though? Every real world usage of the term I can think of has it in the verbal form: "sentir saudade", "estar com saudade", "dar saudade", "a saudade é grande". Even in the sentence "Saudade" the verb is implied. In all those cases it can be accurately translated as "to miss".
  - lucasoshiro 2y ago

n4r9 2y ago

The Portuguese entry into the Eurovision song contest in 2022 was a beautiful song called "Saudade" by Maro. It rightly won the contest, and that's how my wife and I know the term (we still sing the chorus around the house sometimes). So it's unexpectedly popular in various European countries. https://youtube.com/watch?v=eQul-rkcGPQ https://youtube.com/watch?v=eQul-rkcGPQ

croisillon 2y ago
how do you mean "it won the contest"?
- ngcazz 2y ago
  It was the Portuguese entry in the Eurovision song contest, so it won the Portuguese contest.
- n4r9 2y ago
  Ah I was wrong! I thought it won Eurovision but it actually came ninth. Of course, that was the year Ukraine won from the public vote due to solidarity after Russia's invasion.
  - croisillon 2y ago
    thanks for your answer, in retrospect i always tend to believe my favorite song won ;) i really liked Moldova in 2022! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGNT5Uh-WKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGNT5Uh-WKw
    - n4r9 2y ago
      Yes, I even remember wondering whether they got under-voted because of links with Russia :/

lucasoshiro 2y ago

> saudade as a sort of deep longing to be back with a loved one in person Brazilian here. Not only a person, it can be a place, a thing, a scent, a moment and so on. It's kind of a nostalgia, but it doesn't need to be exactly related to a distant time. For example, if you are traveling you can feel saudade of your home the moment in the first day. You may also feel saudade when you listen to a song that you used to listen in a good moment of your life. Nowadays everyone knows that it's a word that only exists in Portuguese (and in Galician, which is really close to Portuguese), but it was really shocking for me and other people that almost no other language has a similar word. Perhaps it is one of the most used words for describing a feeling here, it's like not having a word for "love", "anger" or "envy". Other unique thing in Portuguese is that we have two verbs for the verb "to be": "ser" and "estar". "Ser" is when something always "is" and "estar" is for something that "is" at this moment. For example: if you translate "she is beautiful" as "ser" you expect that she is beautiful everyday, in all situations, while if you translate as "estar" is because she is looking good at this moment (perhaps she is wearing a nice dress, or recently has her hair cut, etc). Only having this in Portuguese was also shocking to me, as that distinction is natural for us.

mixmastamyk 2y ago
Ser/estar in Spanish as well.