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It depends. We can say that China’s industrial policies are a kind of protectionism as well in that they are willing to pay for extra cost for domestic “nationa

by typ 2y ago

It depends. We can say that China’s industrial policies are a kind of protectionism as well in that they are willing to pay for extra cost for domestic “national red supply chain independence” rather than relying on the “comparatively advantageous” western vendors. And they did get excellent results. Note that industrial independence is exactly the opposite of free trade and that has been a long sought national goal by China. Regarding tariffs on China exports, the relatively fortunate position for the US is that the biggest components in consumer inflation index such as food, housing and energy are all either largely domestic produced or not dominated by China, which gives more room for the US to react. But the tariff could still harm the gross margin of the international enterprises and even SMBs, who are facing the immediate pressure of adjustment during the trade war.

wakawaka28 2y ago
China has a high amount of protectionism. You can't sell in China without approval, and no foreign-controlled business is granted access. You have to set up a minimum 51% Chinese-owned subsidiary and possibly jump through other hoops to get access. This along with all the outsourcing has been used to steal IP and put foreign competitors out of business.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
  Many of the claims you're making here are outdated, or just outright false. For example, the 51% requirement does not apply in most industries any more. It was a transitional measure as China opened up its economy to foreign investment, to prevent foreign companies from instantly taking over or outcompeting every Chinese company. But that measure has been rolled back over the years, and now only applies in particular industries. Tesla 100% owns its operations in China, as do more and more foreign companies. Many people in the US and Europe are operating with a mental picture of China that is decades out of date, or which is even just wrong.
  - wakawaka28 2y ago
    >But that measure has been rolled back over the years, and now only applies in particular industries. I would like to know where you saw this. Not to be a jerk but I've never heard this and I'm more informed than most. >Tesla 100% owns its operations in China, as do more and more foreign companies. Tesla is the first one to have that arrangement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigafactory_Shanghai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigafactory_Shanghai What about this? https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Supply-Chain/Tesla-cars-face-more-entry-bans-in-China-as-security-concerns-accelerate https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Supply-Chain/Tesla-cars-fa... Keep in mind, producing Teslas in China is not the same as selling them in China. They can mandate Tesla to export 100% of the cars at any time if they feel it threatens the local industry. >Many people in the US and Europe are operating with a mental picture of China that is decades out of date, or which is even just wrong. Many people are also operating with an overly optimistic and romanticized picture of China that was never true to begin with.
    - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
      > I would like to know where you saw this. Not to be a jerk but I've never heard this and I'm more informed than most. You just mentioned an example yourself: automobiles. This isn't specialized knowledge. You can read about China's JV policy, and how the list of affected industries has shrunk over time. > They can mandate Tesla to export 100% of the cars at any time if they feel it threatens the local industry. Anyone could theoretically do anything in the future. They haven't. In fact, they've been extremely welcoming to Tesla.
      - wakawaka28 2y ago
        >You can read about China's JV policy, and how the list of affected industries has shrunk over time. Yes but I don't read Chinese. Like I said I have read about this stuff and never found another example besides Tesla. You said something about "particular industries" which implies there must be far more examples of exceptions to the JV rule. I haven't been able to find them. I thought you might have a good source since you're the one claiming that there are more exceptions. >Anyone could theoretically do anything in the future. They haven't. In fact, they've been extremely welcoming to Tesla. They have a history of welcoming outside companies until they get a domestic equivalent. For example this has happened to tech companies.

by typ 2y ago

wakawaka28 2y ago

China has a high amount of protectionism. You can't sell in China without approval, and no foreign-controlled business is granted access. You have to set up a minimum 51% Chinese-owned subsidiary and possibly jump through other hoops to get access. This along with all the outsourcing has been used to steal IP and put foreign competitors out of business.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
Many of the claims you're making here are outdated, or just outright false. For example, the 51% requirement does not apply in most industries any more. It was a transitional measure as China opened up its economy to foreign investment, to prevent foreign companies from instantly taking over or outcompeting every Chinese company. But that measure has been rolled back over the years, and now only applies in particular industries. Tesla 100% owns its operations in China, as do more and more foreign companies. Many people in the US and Europe are operating with a mental picture of China that is decades out of date, or which is even just wrong.
- wakawaka28 2y ago
  >But that measure has been rolled back over the years, and now only applies in particular industries. I would like to know where you saw this. Not to be a jerk but I've never heard this and I'm more informed than most. >Tesla 100% owns its operations in China, as do more and more foreign companies. Tesla is the first one to have that arrangement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigafactory_Shanghai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigafactory_Shanghai What about this? https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Supply-Chain/Tesla-cars-face-more-entry-bans-in-China-as-security-concerns-accelerate https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Supply-Chain/Tesla-cars-fa... Keep in mind, producing Teslas in China is not the same as selling them in China. They can mandate Tesla to export 100% of the cars at any time if they feel it threatens the local industry. >Many people in the US and Europe are operating with a mental picture of China that is decades out of date, or which is even just wrong. Many people are also operating with an overly optimistic and romanticized picture of China that was never true to begin with.
  - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
    > I would like to know where you saw this. Not to be a jerk but I've never heard this and I'm more informed than most. You just mentioned an example yourself: automobiles. This isn't specialized knowledge. You can read about China's JV policy, and how the list of affected industries has shrunk over time. > They can mandate Tesla to export 100% of the cars at any time if they feel it threatens the local industry. Anyone could theoretically do anything in the future. They haven't. In fact, they've been extremely welcoming to Tesla.
    - wakawaka28 2y ago
      >You can read about China's JV policy, and how the list of affected industries has shrunk over time. Yes but I don't read Chinese. Like I said I have read about this stuff and never found another example besides Tesla. You said something about "particular industries" which implies there must be far more examples of exceptions to the JV rule. I haven't been able to find them. I thought you might have a good source since you're the one claiming that there are more exceptions. >Anyone could theoretically do anything in the future. They haven't. In fact, they've been extremely welcoming to Tesla. They have a history of welcoming outside companies until they get a domestic equivalent. For example this has happened to tech companies.