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I can't help but say that Australia is basically the stupidest country on the planet (at least amongst Western democracies, since one could say modern Russia is

I can't help but say that Australia is basically the stupidest country on the planet (at least amongst Western democracies, since one could say modern Russia is stupider, but that's a whole another cultural debate). It's like the degenerate alcoholic who's willing to prostitute their mother for a bar tab. A country so blessed with some of the most important natural resources, a country whose geography is synonymous with the word abundance. But nah, they'd rather sell themselves out to the biggest foreign bidder, even if they are from their biggest regional rivals. While Norway and the UAE enjoy the fruits of their resources through strong welfare systems enabled by a resource-driven economy a fraction of Australia's, Australia sold itself so hard its own citizens have to buy from foreign corpos.

defrost 2y ago
> Australia is basically the stupidest country on the planet Too right. > It's like the degenerate alcoholic who's willing to prostitute their mother for a bar tab. Ahh, so you are Australian then. > even if they are from their biggest regional rivals. How is China a regional rival? Australia has koalas, China has Pandas. > While Norway and the UAE enjoy the fruits of their resources through strong welfare systems enabled by a resource-driven economy Australia also has welfare, high living standards, high life expectancy, good health, etc. > Australia sold itself so hard its own citizens have to buy from foreign corpos. Ahhh, so Norway and UAE have their own home built computers, TV's, and EV's, etc then? You have some points, but you're trying to edge lord a bit hard there mate.
- fakedang 2y ago
  > Australia also has welfare, high living standards, high life expectancy, good health, etc. Tell me how affordable a home near the workplace is for most Australians? On the contrary, Norwegians and Emiratis get a huge housing subsidy for their first homes. They both use their oil revenues to push for sustainable energy sources at home. And the UAE is currently pulling over its weight in AI, funding a significant AI player, while also taking part in active space exploration. > Ahhh, so Norway and UAE have their own home built computers, TV's, and EV's, etc then? Building computers, EVs and TVs in this age when China controls the complete manufacturing chain is a bit stupid honestly. But they do have manufacturing bases on the things they actually excel at - Norway is a major player in manufacturing shipping and specialized O&G equipment, while the UAE has focused on aircraft parts manufacturing and defence manufacturing.
MaxPock 2y ago
Do you have another market for them where they can sell 1 billion tons of iron ore a year ?
- creato 2y ago
  They could process it themselves and consume or export those higher value materials
  - defrost 2y ago
    See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42593404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42593404 Australia itself doesn't have the demand for that much steel internally - China does (and exports its excess production).
    - grecy 2y ago
      > and exports its excess production Which is exactly what Australia could do if it made a bunch of steel.
    - bigfatkitten 2y ago
      > China does (and exports its excess production). With no small amount of it exported to Australia.
- fakedang 2y ago
  Saudi Aramco has a $50 billion dollar subsidiary called SABIC whose purpose is to take oil byproducts and refine them into plastics. Does Saudi Arabia have a huge plastic market? Or did they just think, hey, we could export this shit elsewhere for more money! You literally let an Australian company process it to higher value products and ship it? That's literally what every oil major has done with their resources.
maxglute 2y ago
AU exported ~1.5-2 trillion (lazy chatgpt math) worth of iron ore to PRC in last 20 years... which is life changing sovereign fund size, for Norway (also ~2T), with 5 million people. Or UAE 1 million emraties. Qatar with 300k Qataries. Much less so for 25m OZs. Doesn't mean they haven't squandered what they have, but just to put scale in perspective. Not to mention PRC steel employs like 3m people, about the entire population of western australia where all the iron ore is. Unless AU dumped 1/5 of their entire workforce, relocate millions of workers and families, they can't make enough finished steel products to fill PRC appetite. I think much easier and profitable for AU to double down on ore extraction and ship more $$$ than finished steel. That's where AU competitive advantage is. Otherwise buyers will look elsewhere, i.e. Brazil could have been expanding iron ore exports much sooner.
- fakedang 2y ago
  Like I mentioned in another comment, you create manufacturing companies in your home turf to refine those raw materials into higher value products, which is exactly what Norway, the UAE and Saudi Arabia have done (Qatar cant exactly do that because their resource is basically just gas). Companies like Aramco, SABIC, ADNOC and Statoil exist. I don't see any of those countries inviting Adani or Yuxiao to extract their material for them. Yet China is a major customer for all of them, as they all are for China (Norway maybe less so).
grecy 2y ago
FWIW, I’m an Aussie who went back during covid for the first meaningful stretch in 20 years. Explored the who country. I saw with my own eyes what you’re talking about and you are spot on. It’s depressing and sad to see how Australia can’t organize a free one in a brothel, is stuck in the past and has no real interest or plan on how to improve anything at all. Their problem is life is pretty good, so they’re not interested in a bit of work to make it incredible. Like you said, a modest sovereign wealth fund could easily let every Aussie work 4 or even 3 days a week. Or more solar, or making use of all the uranium or one of dozens of things
- bigfatkitten 2y ago
  David Horne said it best in 1964. "Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck. It lives on other people’s ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise."
  - grecy 2y ago
    Thanks, I've never seen that quote. 100% spot on. Sadly as true today as it apparently was back then.
  - fakedang 2y ago
    That's such a beautifully relevant quote.
- fakedang 2y ago
  It's what they call the resource curse, something that has plagued Norway too, but at least in Norway's case, they have opted to do it in a way that sustains it for the future. Compared to the Swedish and Danish, the Norwegians are also considered lazy for the same reason - life is good, so why bother with ambition?
bgnn 2y ago
Australia isn't a Western democracy, they are all the way in the east. UAE isn't either.

defrost 2y ago

> Australia is basically the stupidest country on the planet Too right. > It's like the degenerate alcoholic who's willing to prostitute their mother for a bar tab. Ahh, so you are Australian then. > even if they are from their biggest regional rivals. How is China a regional rival? Australia has koalas, China has Pandas. > While Norway and the UAE enjoy the fruits of their resources through strong welfare systems enabled by a resource-driven economy Australia also has welfare, high living standards, high life expectancy, good health, etc. > Australia sold itself so hard its own citizens have to buy from foreign corpos. Ahhh, so Norway and UAE have their own home built computers, TV's, and EV's, etc then? You have some points, but you're trying to edge lord a bit hard there mate.

fakedang 2y ago
> Australia also has welfare, high living standards, high life expectancy, good health, etc. Tell me how affordable a home near the workplace is for most Australians? On the contrary, Norwegians and Emiratis get a huge housing subsidy for their first homes. They both use their oil revenues to push for sustainable energy sources at home. And the UAE is currently pulling over its weight in AI, funding a significant AI player, while also taking part in active space exploration. > Ahhh, so Norway and UAE have their own home built computers, TV's, and EV's, etc then? Building computers, EVs and TVs in this age when China controls the complete manufacturing chain is a bit stupid honestly. But they do have manufacturing bases on the things they actually excel at - Norway is a major player in manufacturing shipping and specialized O&G equipment, while the UAE has focused on aircraft parts manufacturing and defence manufacturing.

MaxPock 2y ago

Do you have another market for them where they can sell 1 billion tons of iron ore a year ?

creato 2y ago
They could process it themselves and consume or export those higher value materials
- defrost 2y ago
  See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42593404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42593404 Australia itself doesn't have the demand for that much steel internally - China does (and exports its excess production).
  - grecy 2y ago
    > and exports its excess production Which is exactly what Australia could do if it made a bunch of steel.
  - bigfatkitten 2y ago
    > China does (and exports its excess production). With no small amount of it exported to Australia.
fakedang 2y ago
Saudi Aramco has a $50 billion dollar subsidiary called SABIC whose purpose is to take oil byproducts and refine them into plastics. Does Saudi Arabia have a huge plastic market? Or did they just think, hey, we could export this shit elsewhere for more money! You literally let an Australian company process it to higher value products and ship it? That's literally what every oil major has done with their resources.

maxglute 2y ago

AU exported ~1.5-2 trillion (lazy chatgpt math) worth of iron ore to PRC in last 20 years... which is life changing sovereign fund size, for Norway (also ~2T), with 5 million people. Or UAE 1 million emraties. Qatar with 300k Qataries. Much less so for 25m OZs. Doesn't mean they haven't squandered what they have, but just to put scale in perspective. Not to mention PRC steel employs like 3m people, about the entire population of western australia where all the iron ore is. Unless AU dumped 1/5 of their entire workforce, relocate millions of workers and families, they can't make enough finished steel products to fill PRC appetite. I think much easier and profitable for AU to double down on ore extraction and ship more $$$ than finished steel. That's where AU competitive advantage is. Otherwise buyers will look elsewhere, i.e. Brazil could have been expanding iron ore exports much sooner.

fakedang 2y ago
Like I mentioned in another comment, you create manufacturing companies in your home turf to refine those raw materials into higher value products, which is exactly what Norway, the UAE and Saudi Arabia have done (Qatar cant exactly do that because their resource is basically just gas). Companies like Aramco, SABIC, ADNOC and Statoil exist. I don't see any of those countries inviting Adani or Yuxiao to extract their material for them. Yet China is a major customer for all of them, as they all are for China (Norway maybe less so).

grecy 2y ago

FWIW, I’m an Aussie who went back during covid for the first meaningful stretch in 20 years. Explored the who country. I saw with my own eyes what you’re talking about and you are spot on. It’s depressing and sad to see how Australia can’t organize a free one in a brothel, is stuck in the past and has no real interest or plan on how to improve anything at all. Their problem is life is pretty good, so they’re not interested in a bit of work to make it incredible. Like you said, a modest sovereign wealth fund could easily let every Aussie work 4 or even 3 days a week. Or more solar, or making use of all the uranium or one of dozens of things

bigfatkitten 2y ago
David Horne said it best in 1964. "Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck. It lives on other people’s ideas, and, although its ordinary people are adaptable, most of its leaders (in all fields) so lack curiosity about the events that surround them that they are often taken by surprise."
- grecy 2y ago
  Thanks, I've never seen that quote. 100% spot on. Sadly as true today as it apparently was back then.
- fakedang 2y ago
  That's such a beautifully relevant quote.
fakedang 2y ago
It's what they call the resource curse, something that has plagued Norway too, but at least in Norway's case, they have opted to do it in a way that sustains it for the future. Compared to the Swedish and Danish, the Norwegians are also considered lazy for the same reason - life is good, so why bother with ambition?

bgnn 2y ago

Australia isn't a Western democracy, they are all the way in the east. UAE isn't either.