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> Because what we called the "Soviet Union" was really just another Russian Empire. No one was particularly concerned about the other Soviet "states" except ins

> Because what we called the "Soviet Union" was really just another Russian Empire. No one was particularly concerned about the other Soviet "states" except insofar as to worry about what Russia would order them to do. Wow, that sounds pretty bad. But I seem to remember that when Ukraine unilaterally declared its independence from the Soviet Union, Russia let them go without a fight. That's hardly what you'd expect from an evil empire, is it? Imagine how poorly you'd think of them if instead they had chosen to wage an unconstitutional war, suspended habeus corpus, shut down newspapers and imprisoned dissenters! Imagine the low regard you'd hold them in if they had invaded the "rebel" territories, killing the very people they insisted were their countrymen, burning their homes and property until they surrendered, then unconstitutionally altering the terms of their membership in the empire.

mopsi 2y ago
> Russia let them go without a fight. That's hardly what you'd expect from an evil empire, is it? The USSR's collapse was rather peaceful not by their own choice. The USSR was in such a deep shit by the final days that officers were forcing conscripts into street prostitution to earn money for food. Secret services and armed forces became completely demoralized. Officers and soldiers sat in their bases, ignored orders in total apathy, and were busy drinking or selling off anything they could, even copper wiring from the walls of their barracks was sold for scrap. You could buy a truckload of binoculars directly from the gates of a military base for less than $100. Radars, missiles, fighter jets too - anything for the almighty dollar. Survival until the next day was the only concern; little else mattered.
Aloisius 2y ago
Russia didn't have much of a choice in the matter given the whole economic collapse happening, but I'm glad we're on the same page about who had been in control. Not that they didn't try in the beginning though. They tried to blockade Lithuania and send tanks which backfired, but they literally couldn't afford to have an actual civil war. The US civil war comparison alluded to is superficial nonsense. They're only similar if you ignore all the details that matter like states voluntarily joining with full knowledge they were giving up sovereignty, actual federal political representation and that the Confederacy started the war by attacking Union soldiers first. Nor was there anything unconstitutional about waging a war, putting down a rebellion or even suspending habeas corpus - those are explicitly enumerated powers - powers that several of the seceding states helped draft.
- marcusverus 2y ago
  > the Confederacy started the war by attacking Union soldiers first. The idea that Sumter justified the Yankees' war of aggression is one of the greatest canards in human history. The Yanks were occupying foreign soil at Sumter (an act of war). They lied about their plans to leave. They attempted to resupply the occupiers but were foiled by an attack... which resulted in zero Union dead. Ergo the Yanks had to wage total war? Lmao. Read Spooner.
  - rat87 2y ago
    The agrresion was by southern states who commited treason in the name of slavery. They attacked an American fort on american soil. They never had a plan to leave because it was American soil.
n4r9 2y ago
> Imagine how poorly you'd think of them if instead they had chosen to wage an unconstitutional war, suspended habeus corpus, shut down newspapers and imprisoned dissenters! Imagine the low regard you'd hold them in if they had invaded the "rebel" territories, killing the very people they insisted were their countrymen, burning their homes and property until they surrendered You mean like what Russia is now doing to Ukraine?
dragonwriter 2y ago
> Wow, that sounds pretty bad. But I seem to remember that when Ukraine unilaterally declared its independence from the Soviet Union, Russia let them go without a fight. Russia declared independence from the Soviet Union before Ukraine did.

mopsi 2y ago

> Russia let them go without a fight. That's hardly what you'd expect from an evil empire, is it? The USSR's collapse was rather peaceful not by their own choice. The USSR was in such a deep shit by the final days that officers were forcing conscripts into street prostitution to earn money for food. Secret services and armed forces became completely demoralized. Officers and soldiers sat in their bases, ignored orders in total apathy, and were busy drinking or selling off anything they could, even copper wiring from the walls of their barracks was sold for scrap. You could buy a truckload of binoculars directly from the gates of a military base for less than $100. Radars, missiles, fighter jets too - anything for the almighty dollar. Survival until the next day was the only concern; little else mattered.

Aloisius 2y ago

Russia didn't have much of a choice in the matter given the whole economic collapse happening, but I'm glad we're on the same page about who had been in control. Not that they didn't try in the beginning though. They tried to blockade Lithuania and send tanks which backfired, but they literally couldn't afford to have an actual civil war. The US civil war comparison alluded to is superficial nonsense. They're only similar if you ignore all the details that matter like states voluntarily joining with full knowledge they were giving up sovereignty, actual federal political representation and that the Confederacy started the war by attacking Union soldiers first. Nor was there anything unconstitutional about waging a war, putting down a rebellion or even suspending habeas corpus - those are explicitly enumerated powers - powers that several of the seceding states helped draft.

marcusverus 2y ago
> the Confederacy started the war by attacking Union soldiers first. The idea that Sumter justified the Yankees' war of aggression is one of the greatest canards in human history. The Yanks were occupying foreign soil at Sumter (an act of war). They lied about their plans to leave. They attempted to resupply the occupiers but were foiled by an attack... which resulted in zero Union dead. Ergo the Yanks had to wage total war? Lmao. Read Spooner.
- rat87 2y ago
  The agrresion was by southern states who commited treason in the name of slavery. They attacked an American fort on american soil. They never had a plan to leave because it was American soil.

n4r9 2y ago

> Imagine how poorly you'd think of them if instead they had chosen to wage an unconstitutional war, suspended habeus corpus, shut down newspapers and imprisoned dissenters! Imagine the low regard you'd hold them in if they had invaded the "rebel" territories, killing the very people they insisted were their countrymen, burning their homes and property until they surrendered You mean like what Russia is now doing to Ukraine?

dragonwriter 2y ago

> Wow, that sounds pretty bad. But I seem to remember that when Ukraine unilaterally declared its independence from the Soviet Union, Russia let them go without a fight. Russia declared independence from the Soviet Union before Ukraine did.