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It's kind of funny how far back this whinging about kids not being able to use computers goes, especially how condescending this blog is. Most people will only

It's kind of funny how far back this whinging about kids not being able to use computers goes, especially how condescending this blog is. Most people will only learn as much about computers to do their work and nothing more, because isn't it normal to only learn the bare minimum about something you don't care about?

dhosek 2y ago
The kids these days don‘t know how to use their cars. They go to mechanics to do something basic like change the oil or replace the brake pads when they could spend a few hours doing it themselves in a half-assed way.
- onemoresoop 2y ago
  Maybe they have money. The kids who don’t have money and are somewhat more intelligent that the average learn that doing it themselves saves them some money they can spend on other things. There’s a cultural aspect of it that changes over time but that’s possibly influenced by changes in technology. When I was a a teenager you could comprehend how a car worked and have modest success debugging and fixing a car. I doubt that’s easy to do these days.
- asdff 2y ago
  It should be said that changing oil does not take hours and however you half ass it, the average lube tech uses even less ass than that.
  - Amezarak 2y ago
    Yeah, on most cars, changing the oil consists of: loosen/remove one bolt, drain oil, unscrew oil filter, put new filter on and bolt back, fill with amount and type of oil specified in manual. (Some also have a little plastic shield you have to remove first.) And yeah, you’re likely to care a whole lot more about your car than some average lube tech. (This is why I change my oil now: I found out how little they care when the lube techs at two different places reattached the plastic shield wrong causing it to fall and drag on the road. Saving money was just a bonus.) I’ve notice people seriously overestimate how complicated really simple maintenance/mechanical tasks are generally. I remember hearing an NPR story about a plumber shortage where the person being interviewed had just paid some thousand dollars to have their PVC drain line repaired. I was shocked. They could have done it themselves with a shovel, a hacksaw, and $5 worth of PVC and glue in maybe 10-25 minutes, well within almost anyone’s capabilities if they had thought to look into it before calling someone. We really are very rich that we can not think about these things.
    - paradox460 2y ago
      Even easier, if you're willing to spend a little up front. Just get a vacuum pump extractor, purpose built for changing oil. You shove the hose down the dipstick hole, pump it a few times, and watch as your oil is removed from the car. No need to jack up the car or crawl under. When the thing starts to make bathtub drain noises, wiggle the hose around to make sure it was seated, pull it up out, and pour a new bottle of oil in. No mess no fuss
      - mrheosuper 2y ago
        i found those vaccuum pump never suck all of the oil completely. You can test it yourself, after sucking the oil, remove the drain plug and there is oil still dripping out
      - xethos 2y ago
        Now show the "Replace oil filter with new" step, ideally (like you mentioned) without lifting the vehicle
        Tildey 2y ago
        Many oil filters these days are accessible from the top of the engine, and IME it’s possible to get under many SUVs/CUVs/trucks far enough to remove the filter/bung without lifting anyway. A set of drive-on ramps makes it kind of a non issue either way
        paradox460 2y ago
        For all of my cars, its centrally located, near the dipstick.
        asdff 2y ago
        That's how I do it on my vehicle, no lift no ramps. I just slide under on my back and everything is very accessible. Toyota still doing something right I guess.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- baby_souffle 2y ago
  I know how to change the oil and do the breaks in my car. I pay a mechanic to do them because I don't have a lift and disposing of used oil is a pain. Kids these days are growing up into a world where breaks rarely need changing and oil is something you use in the kitchen, not a car.
  - Amezarak 2y ago
    You don’t need a lift, Walmart sells cheap ramps and many cars are high enough now you don’t even need those. Of course you can also use a jack and jack stands too, and almost every car comes now with a jack. Used oil can be disposed of at almost any of the super abundant auto parts stores. You take it in, walk to the back, and dump it in the giant tank. Are those really your reasons?
    - xethos 2y ago
      I can't say for everyone, but my current Mazda 3 (and I suspect my previous tenth-gen Civic) lifts to only one side at a time. There is no jack point (in the manual at least) at the front allowing you to jack the vehicle (with the single included jack) and put in jack stands for both sides. Suggests the jack is included only to change a tire at the side of the road, not for maintenance. You were right earlier though, inexpensive ramps for work would be fine.
      - RayeEvtuch 2y ago
        You raise one side, lower it onto the jack stand, remove the jack, then repeat for the other side. You don't raise the entire front of the car.
      - pwg 2y ago
        > There is no jack point (in the manual at least) at the front allowing you to jack the vehicle (with the single included jack) and put in jack stands for both sides. That is not how you put the front up on stands with one jack and the manual's indicated tire change jack points. You jack up one side, using the "jack point" for changing that front tire on that side, insert one jack stand on that side, then you switch to the other side, jack up the other side using its approved "jack point", and insert the other jack stand on the other side.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  I started going to the oil change places when I owned a car that I couldn't get at the oil filter. If I crawled under it, I could just barely touch it with my finger, but at the price of pulling a shoulder muscle. I still can't figure out how you're supposed to change the thing, but after one attempt, I was content to let someone else do it. Yeah, I know, not very "hacker spirit" of me. But I've got a finite amount of that, and there are other places I want to spend it.
onemoresoop 2y ago
While true, the computer as a general purpose machine has become a bloated incomprehensive, somewhat hostile affair to the user and that pushes newcomers away. There was a time when more newcomers stayed.
- asdff 2y ago
  And not only that but kids aren't even interested in computers any more. They want a cell phone and an ipad. That's even more abstracted.
  - tracerbulletx 2y ago
    There's still a pretty significant PC gaming culture.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- sras-me 2y ago
  I once asked a 20 something kid "do you know why computers are a big deal", and he said, "because it is a communication device"? Computers are so good at being programmable that now a days people don't see it as a programmable device, but only as the thing that it is programmed to be. Today there are computers everywhere, but people see a workstatinon, a web server, a gaming rig, a tv, a phone etc, but never the computer is behind all those things.
j45 2y ago
The underlying theme of knowing how things work, or how they are put together, at least conceptually to not get taken advantage of is what remained standing out to me. There has been some thought about students who grew up mostly with touch screens and aren't that great with keyboards and mouse, although I'm not sure how widespread that might be. Being a consumer, instead of a creator, or knowing how the creation is doen (what goes into it, how it could be maintained). Optimistically, I'm looking forward to diy food (gardening) among other things being rediscovered if it isn't already being.

dhosek 2y ago

The kids these days don‘t know how to use their cars. They go to mechanics to do something basic like change the oil or replace the brake pads when they could spend a few hours doing it themselves in a half-assed way.

onemoresoop 2y ago
Maybe they have money. The kids who don’t have money and are somewhat more intelligent that the average learn that doing it themselves saves them some money they can spend on other things. There’s a cultural aspect of it that changes over time but that’s possibly influenced by changes in technology. When I was a a teenager you could comprehend how a car worked and have modest success debugging and fixing a car. I doubt that’s easy to do these days.
asdff 2y ago
It should be said that changing oil does not take hours and however you half ass it, the average lube tech uses even less ass than that.
- Amezarak 2y ago
  Yeah, on most cars, changing the oil consists of: loosen/remove one bolt, drain oil, unscrew oil filter, put new filter on and bolt back, fill with amount and type of oil specified in manual. (Some also have a little plastic shield you have to remove first.) And yeah, you’re likely to care a whole lot more about your car than some average lube tech. (This is why I change my oil now: I found out how little they care when the lube techs at two different places reattached the plastic shield wrong causing it to fall and drag on the road. Saving money was just a bonus.) I’ve notice people seriously overestimate how complicated really simple maintenance/mechanical tasks are generally. I remember hearing an NPR story about a plumber shortage where the person being interviewed had just paid some thousand dollars to have their PVC drain line repaired. I was shocked. They could have done it themselves with a shovel, a hacksaw, and $5 worth of PVC and glue in maybe 10-25 minutes, well within almost anyone’s capabilities if they had thought to look into it before calling someone. We really are very rich that we can not think about these things.
  - paradox460 2y ago
    Even easier, if you're willing to spend a little up front. Just get a vacuum pump extractor, purpose built for changing oil. You shove the hose down the dipstick hole, pump it a few times, and watch as your oil is removed from the car. No need to jack up the car or crawl under. When the thing starts to make bathtub drain noises, wiggle the hose around to make sure it was seated, pull it up out, and pour a new bottle of oil in. No mess no fuss
    - mrheosuper 2y ago
      i found those vaccuum pump never suck all of the oil completely. You can test it yourself, after sucking the oil, remove the drain plug and there is oil still dripping out
    - xethos 2y ago
      Now show the "Replace oil filter with new" step, ideally (like you mentioned) without lifting the vehicle
      - Tildey 2y ago
        Many oil filters these days are accessible from the top of the engine, and IME it’s possible to get under many SUVs/CUVs/trucks far enough to remove the filter/bung without lifting anyway. A set of drive-on ramps makes it kind of a non issue either way
      - paradox460 2y ago
        For all of my cars, its centrally located, near the dipstick.
      - asdff 2y ago
        That's how I do it on my vehicle, no lift no ramps. I just slide under on my back and everything is very accessible. Toyota still doing something right I guess.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
baby_souffle 2y ago
I know how to change the oil and do the breaks in my car. I pay a mechanic to do them because I don't have a lift and disposing of used oil is a pain. Kids these days are growing up into a world where breaks rarely need changing and oil is something you use in the kitchen, not a car.
- Amezarak 2y ago
  You don’t need a lift, Walmart sells cheap ramps and many cars are high enough now you don’t even need those. Of course you can also use a jack and jack stands too, and almost every car comes now with a jack. Used oil can be disposed of at almost any of the super abundant auto parts stores. You take it in, walk to the back, and dump it in the giant tank. Are those really your reasons?
  - xethos 2y ago
    I can't say for everyone, but my current Mazda 3 (and I suspect my previous tenth-gen Civic) lifts to only one side at a time. There is no jack point (in the manual at least) at the front allowing you to jack the vehicle (with the single included jack) and put in jack stands for both sides. Suggests the jack is included only to change a tire at the side of the road, not for maintenance. You were right earlier though, inexpensive ramps for work would be fine.
    - RayeEvtuch 2y ago
      You raise one side, lower it onto the jack stand, remove the jack, then repeat for the other side. You don't raise the entire front of the car.
    - pwg 2y ago
      > There is no jack point (in the manual at least) at the front allowing you to jack the vehicle (with the single included jack) and put in jack stands for both sides. That is not how you put the front up on stands with one jack and the manual's indicated tire change jack points. You jack up one side, using the "jack point" for changing that front tire on that side, insert one jack stand on that side, then you switch to the other side, jack up the other side using its approved "jack point", and insert the other jack stand on the other side.
AnimalMuppet 2y ago
I started going to the oil change places when I owned a car that I couldn't get at the oil filter. If I crawled under it, I could just barely touch it with my finger, but at the price of pulling a shoulder muscle. I still can't figure out how you're supposed to change the thing, but after one attempt, I was content to let someone else do it. Yeah, I know, not very "hacker spirit" of me. But I've got a finite amount of that, and there are other places I want to spend it.

onemoresoop 2y ago

While true, the computer as a general purpose machine has become a bloated incomprehensive, somewhat hostile affair to the user and that pushes newcomers away. There was a time when more newcomers stayed.

asdff 2y ago
And not only that but kids aren't even interested in computers any more. They want a cell phone and an ipad. That's even more abstracted.
- tracerbulletx 2y ago
  There's still a pretty significant PC gaming culture.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
sras-me 2y ago
I once asked a 20 something kid "do you know why computers are a big deal", and he said, "because it is a communication device"? Computers are so good at being programmable that now a days people don't see it as a programmable device, but only as the thing that it is programmed to be. Today there are computers everywhere, but people see a workstatinon, a web server, a gaming rig, a tv, a phone etc, but never the computer is behind all those things.

j45 2y ago

The underlying theme of knowing how things work, or how they are put together, at least conceptually to not get taken advantage of is what remained standing out to me. There has been some thought about students who grew up mostly with touch screens and aren't that great with keyboards and mouse, although I'm not sure how widespread that might be. Being a consumer, instead of a creator, or knowing how the creation is doen (what goes into it, how it could be maintained). Optimistically, I'm looking forward to diy food (gardening) among other things being rediscovered if it isn't already being.