5 ms·

I don't know what you're talking about at all.

by naming_the_user 2y ago

greenthrow 2y ago
[flagged]
- naming_the_user 2y ago
  Yes, races are clearly total bollocks. I don't know why you've gotten any other conclusion from what I've written here which is why I'm confused, you seem to be agreeing with me angrily.
  - davorak 2y ago
    > If your race is something that you need to proudly announce (because you personally feel that it has cultural connotations in most/many cases), then race is always going to be an issue, because of assumptions of those cultural differences. This seems to put the burden on the minority. Without getting into details it does not make sense in my mind to put the burden on the party with less power.
  - greenthrow 2y ago
    You're missing the nuance that while they are invented they are used in real ways and cause real effects. That's what I tried to point out to you in my original response. So your assertion that it's either they are based on nothing or people can say it matters is a false dichotomy. They are invented but also the have been used throughout history to segregate people and cause peope to have differing life experiences. So it's not unjustified for someone to say their race has a lot of impact on their personal life experience and thus identity.
    - naming_the_user 2y ago
      It is probably a self-perpetuating meme, I just think it sucks. Feels like a catch-22.
- RonaldDump 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - krapp 2y ago
    >What exactly does "social construct" mean? From Wikipedia[0]: A social construct or construction is the meaning, notion, or connotation placed on an object or event by a society, and adopted by that society with respect to how they view or deal with the object or event.[8] The social construction of target populations refers to the cultural characterizations or popular images of the persons or groups whose behavior and well-being are affected by public policy.[9] Social constructionism posits that the meanings of phenomena do not have an independent foundation outside the mental and linguistic representation that people develop about them throughout their history, and which becomes their shared reality.[10] From a linguistic viewpoint, social constructionism centres meaning as an internal reference within language (words refer to words, definitions to other definitions) rather than to an external reality. And specifically regarding race being a social construct: https://archive.is/g5utD https://archive.is/g5utD >Are dog breeds a 'social construct'? >Are species a 'social construct'? Species are a social construct[1]. Dog breeds are not a social construct[2]. However, human races are not equivalent to dog breeds[3]. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_constructionism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_constructionism [1]https://old.reddit.com/r/AskSocialScience/comments/ad58x6/is_species_a_social_construction_in_the_same_way/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskSocialScience/comments/ad58x6/is... [2] https://old.reddit.com/r/biology/comments/rfapt7/are_dog_breeds_and_human_races_the_same/ https://old.reddit.com/r/biology/comments/rfapt7/are_dog_bre... [3]https://evolution-outreach.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12052-019-0109-y https://evolution-outreach.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.118...
  - asveikau 2y ago
    To understand the "race is a social construct" thing, it's helpful to (1) consider border cases and ambiguities and (2) consider history 1. Breaks down especially with the existence of mixed race people. Did you know that there was a term for Americans born with 7 European great grandparents and 1 black one? Many of those were born into slavery and treated horribly for being black. Which touches on 2... But also, the Irish were not considered white. I've seen horribly racist British illustrations of the 19th century comparing Irish people to Africans. In that century in the United States, Italian and eastern European immigrants were also not considered white. When you consider these ridiculous corner cases, and how their perceptions have changed over time, it makes you aware that the categorization itself isn't really based on logic and reason or facts, even when generalizations hold up "better". Yes, for the most stereotypically appearing people, we'll probably correctly guess their ancestry a lot of the time based on things like appearances. But it falls apart pretty quickly. You don't need to get into extreme outlier cases as above for you to miss something when you treat racial categories as unambiguous facts.

I don't know what you're talking about at all.

greenthrow 2y ago

[flagged]

naming_the_user 2y ago
Yes, races are clearly total bollocks. I don't know why you've gotten any other conclusion from what I've written here which is why I'm confused, you seem to be agreeing with me angrily.
- davorak 2y ago
  > If your race is something that you need to proudly announce (because you personally feel that it has cultural connotations in most/many cases), then race is always going to be an issue, because of assumptions of those cultural differences. This seems to put the burden on the minority. Without getting into details it does not make sense in my mind to put the burden on the party with less power.
- greenthrow 2y ago
  You're missing the nuance that while they are invented they are used in real ways and cause real effects. That's what I tried to point out to you in my original response. So your assertion that it's either they are based on nothing or people can say it matters is a false dichotomy. They are invented but also the have been used throughout history to segregate people and cause peope to have differing life experiences. So it's not unjustified for someone to say their race has a lot of impact on their personal life experience and thus identity.
  - naming_the_user 2y ago
    It is probably a self-perpetuating meme, I just think it sucks. Feels like a catch-22.
RonaldDump 2y ago
[flagged]
- krapp 2y ago
  >What exactly does "social construct" mean? From Wikipedia[0]: A social construct or construction is the meaning, notion, or connotation placed on an object or event by a society, and adopted by that society with respect to how they view or deal with the object or event.[8] The social construction of target populations refers to the cultural characterizations or popular images of the persons or groups whose behavior and well-being are affected by public policy.[9] Social constructionism posits that the meanings of phenomena do not have an independent foundation outside the mental and linguistic representation that people develop about them throughout their history, and which becomes their shared reality.[10] From a linguistic viewpoint, social constructionism centres meaning as an internal reference within language (words refer to words, definitions to other definitions) rather than to an external reality. And specifically regarding race being a social construct: https://archive.is/g5utD https://archive.is/g5utD >Are dog breeds a 'social construct'? >Are species a 'social construct'? Species are a social construct[1]. Dog breeds are not a social construct[2]. However, human races are not equivalent to dog breeds[3]. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_constructionism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_constructionism [1]https://old.reddit.com/r/AskSocialScience/comments/ad58x6/is_species_a_social_construction_in_the_same_way/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskSocialScience/comments/ad58x6/is... [2] https://old.reddit.com/r/biology/comments/rfapt7/are_dog_breeds_and_human_races_the_same/ https://old.reddit.com/r/biology/comments/rfapt7/are_dog_bre... [3]https://evolution-outreach.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12052-019-0109-y https://evolution-outreach.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.118...
- asveikau 2y ago
  To understand the "race is a social construct" thing, it's helpful to (1) consider border cases and ambiguities and (2) consider history 1. Breaks down especially with the existence of mixed race people. Did you know that there was a term for Americans born with 7 European great grandparents and 1 black one? Many of those were born into slavery and treated horribly for being black. Which touches on 2... But also, the Irish were not considered white. I've seen horribly racist British illustrations of the 19th century comparing Irish people to Africans. In that century in the United States, Italian and eastern European immigrants were also not considered white. When you consider these ridiculous corner cases, and how their perceptions have changed over time, it makes you aware that the categorization itself isn't really based on logic and reason or facts, even when generalizations hold up "better". Yes, for the most stereotypically appearing people, we'll probably correctly guess their ancestry a lot of the time based on things like appearances. But it falls apart pretty quickly. You don't need to get into extreme outlier cases as above for you to miss something when you treat racial categories as unambiguous facts.