3 ms·

Looks like China will lead the next generation of open source tech.

curious_cat_163 2y ago
And be a lot more efficient (e.g. DeepSeek-V3) [1] about it... [1] https://arxiv.org/pdf/2412.19437v1 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2412.19437v1
enos_feedler 2y ago
Yep, including HarmonyOS NEXT.
- basilgohar 2y ago
  It is not open source. "HarmonyOS NEXT (Chinese: 鸿蒙星河版; pinyin: Hóngméng Xīnghébǎn) is a proprietary distributed operating system and a major iteration of HarmonyOS, developed by Huawei to support only HarmonyOS native apps." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HarmonyOS_NEXT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HarmonyOS_NEXT
  - mdaniel 2y ago
    Haven't you heard? Open Source now means whatever businesses want it to mean so long as it gets eyeballs or free labor :-(
  - skissane 2y ago
    HarmonyOS NEXT is based on an open source core, OpenHarmony [0], with proprietary additions. So, not hugely dissimilar from iOS (lots of bits of which are open source, most significantly the core of its XNU kernel) and Android (considering that the proprietary Google Mobile Services is de facto a mandatory component) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenHarmony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenHarmony
    - lern_too_spel 2y ago
      The Taco Bell kiosk and your exercise bike don't need the "mandatory" GMS.
  - enos_feedler 2y ago
    I am speculating it will become open source. or at least supplant Android's role in the global smartphone ecosystem.
elorant 2y ago
How is China training models without access to cutting edge GPUs?
- kristjansson 2y ago
  Pretty easily, it turns out?
- pixelesque 2y ago
  They're being more efficient about it by the looks of things, rather than brute-forcing things... https://x.com/karpathy/status/1872362712958906460 https://x.com/karpathy/status/1872362712958906460
- ryao 2y ago
  They have access to cutting edge GPUs via rentals: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/bytedance-plans-to-sidestep-us-sanctions-by-renting-nvidia-gpus-in-the-cloud-report-says-it-has-set-aside-7-billion-budget/ar-AA1wLF5A https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/bytedance-plans-to-s...
- rajamaka 2y ago
  The same way drug users access illegal drugs.
- arthurcolle 2y ago
  very carefully
- HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
  - using non-cutting edge GPUs (just more of them) - creating more efficient models such as MoE based DeepSeek - getting their hands on cutting edge GPUs all the same I think it was Dylan Patel (from semianalysis) on Dwarkesh that mentioned one scam is for a Chinese source to arrange for a SOTA NVidia cluster to be bought/installed in some non-embargoed country, then dismantled and shipped to China.
jpcookie 2y ago
[flagged]

And be a lot more efficient (e.g. DeepSeek-V3) [1] about it... [1] https://arxiv.org/pdf/2412.19437v1 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2412.19437v1

enos_feedler 2y ago

Yep, including HarmonyOS NEXT.

basilgohar 2y ago
It is not open source. "HarmonyOS NEXT (Chinese: 鸿蒙星河版; pinyin: Hóngméng Xīnghébǎn) is a proprietary distributed operating system and a major iteration of HarmonyOS, developed by Huawei to support only HarmonyOS native apps." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HarmonyOS_NEXT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HarmonyOS_NEXT
- mdaniel 2y ago
  Haven't you heard? Open Source now means whatever businesses want it to mean so long as it gets eyeballs or free labor :-(
- skissane 2y ago
  HarmonyOS NEXT is based on an open source core, OpenHarmony [0], with proprietary additions. So, not hugely dissimilar from iOS (lots of bits of which are open source, most significantly the core of its XNU kernel) and Android (considering that the proprietary Google Mobile Services is de facto a mandatory component) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenHarmony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenHarmony
  - lern_too_spel 2y ago
    The Taco Bell kiosk and your exercise bike don't need the "mandatory" GMS.
- enos_feedler 2y ago
  I am speculating it will become open source. or at least supplant Android's role in the global smartphone ecosystem.

elorant 2y ago

How is China training models without access to cutting edge GPUs?

kristjansson 2y ago
Pretty easily, it turns out?
pixelesque 2y ago
They're being more efficient about it by the looks of things, rather than brute-forcing things... https://x.com/karpathy/status/1872362712958906460 https://x.com/karpathy/status/1872362712958906460
ryao 2y ago
They have access to cutting edge GPUs via rentals: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/bytedance-plans-to-sidestep-us-sanctions-by-renting-nvidia-gpus-in-the-cloud-report-says-it-has-set-aside-7-billion-budget/ar-AA1wLF5A https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/bytedance-plans-to-s...
rajamaka 2y ago
The same way drug users access illegal drugs.
arthurcolle 2y ago
very carefully
HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
- using non-cutting edge GPUs (just more of them) - creating more efficient models such as MoE based DeepSeek - getting their hands on cutting edge GPUs all the same I think it was Dylan Patel (from semianalysis) on Dwarkesh that mentioned one scam is for a Chinese source to arrange for a SOTA NVidia cluster to be bought/installed in some non-embargoed country, then dismantled and shipped to China.

jpcookie 2y ago

[flagged]